Depression and go

[Boidhre]

In go, it's easier to see your inadequacy. Online servers, for example, give ranks that remind you every day just how bad you are. This can be depressing (unless you are 9d).

In other parts of life, sometimes, you can pretend you don't suck, and maybe believe yourself.

Still, I agree with the idea that go is not the cause of depression. It's probably just one area where it's easy to see itself manifested.

I've been having a come down over the past few days after the high of the tournament (perfectly normal for someone with bipolar unfortunately) and it's given me some new insights into the above. One shouldn't look at it in terms of go making it easier to see your inadequacies but go making it easier to spot when you're being negative because it's an area where your thoughts can become very self-critical quite easily. When I get low, the board makes less sense than usual, every unsettled group looks dead already, every tight game looks like a lost one, having an aversion to live play because you expect inevitable defeat etc. Watching for this kind of thinking is helping me spot faster when I'm going into a depression and helping me take action sooner. Now I'm not saying that thinking negatively about go means you're depressed, I'm saying if you already know you're prone to depression then go can help you spot negative thinking patterns faster which is important for anyone who suffers from depression as these can be preludes to or the early stages of a depressive episode. This applies across your life and working out what the early signs are for you is a very important step in learning to manage and live with depression. I'm just speaking about go as this is a go forum but the point is far broader.

Anyway, I hope some other people suffering from bipolar or depression or anxiety find these musing interesting.

[SCWillson]

While it is critically important for depressed people to do everything they can within their own power to combat this condition, professional care is important as well. I was on anti-depressants for over a year and saw a therapist for over six months.

[Boidhre]

While it is critically important for depressed people to do everything they can within their own power to combat this condition, professional care is important as well. I was on anti-depressants for over a year and saw a therapist for over six months.

Agreed wholeheartedly.

[bakekoq]

wah. I got a depression when I play with a sandbagger who destroy enemy cruelly. but,after I play with Korean pro he also always play as trying to kill all of my stones. so I learned that my go is need improving. and the battle on the board is between life and death. even in shideogo (teaching game), my teacher (korean pro) will always try to kill me. it help me to read for deffending some territory.

don't got depressed too long. U need the reason why do you play go. I'm playing go for having fun coz go is fun, more fun than any other board game that I knonw. so,grin ur teeth and fight back on the board.

if after ur review u find that u made a lot of mistakes, don't worry about that. one u need from a game is learning. u need to learn ur mistakes so u don't make the same mistakes in the future. even a pro player can make some mistakes too. so,fighting..

[Boidhre]

Something interesting I came across:

A MBCT theory of depression (Mindfulness Based Cognitive Therapy):

When our mood goes low, for whatever reason, our minds start conjouring thoughts based on this internal context. Similar to old memories reawakened upon visiting a place from your childhood, when we go into low or high moods our minds bring forth thoughts and memories that match these contexts. The important thing to know is that the body and mind does not automatically distinguish between things that are actually happening and things that are being remembered. So if I remember something extremely stressful and start thinking actively about it, my body reacts as if it was happening right now. One of the key behavioural changes when we go into a low mood is aversion (the opposite is the problem when in a high mood). We avoid things that we think will cause us to feel bad. So for instance, socially we might not go out to meet people because our depressed mind is convinced things will go badly and you'll get mocked/ridiculed/rejected/attacked/whatever. Conversely in a high mood we go out socially even when it's a bad idea because we're convinced it'll be great.

The same kind of aversion (and enthusasism) will be present with go, or any other hobby or interest.

Now what's interesting is that this aversion functions like a feedback loop reinforcing and deepening the mood issue. By not doing things because we think they'll make us feel worse we making things worse for definite. By avoiding things, be they go, socialising, friends, nice treats for ourselves or whatever, we are reinforcing the depression we're trying to avoid in the first place. The behavioural changes, be whatever they are, caused by the initial low mood are as problematic as the low mood itself. Now all of this is a lot easier said than done. When I'm high I just want to socialise like mad and have all this energy and drive to plan out my day's activities in stupid levels of detail (go is just one aspect of this), when I'm low the idea of socialising or playing go or anything like that fills me with dread. But knowing is half the battle, so this gives me some hope going forward.

The Mindfulness part is learning to accept, non-judgmentally, the negative feelings and learning not to fight them. Just feel them, experience them, and let them pass in their own time. It's perfectly ok and normal to feel bad after a blunder, a fight with a friend or whatever, what's bad are the thoughts and behaviours that follow these feelings. Meditation can break this automatic link and help us stop ourselves from going from stimulus to action immediately and allow us a break from the rumination.

Anyway, sorry, I found this interesting.

[EdLee]

Meditation can break this automatic link ...

Meditation comes in many forms: stationary (sitting or standing, etc.), or moving (running, jogging, swimming, etc.).
Go could be a form of meditation.

[Boidhre]

Meditation can break this automatic link ...

Meditation comes in many forms: stationary (sitting or standing, etc.), or moving (running, jogging, swimming, etc.).
Go could be a form of meditation.

Interesting. How do you mean?

[EdLee]

What does meditation mean to you?

[Boidhre]

What does meditation mean to you?

I've only been introduced to Mindfulness based approaches and read works by teachers from that related areas of Buddhism and Psychology so:

Non-judgmental awareness of our experience of the world, be it our internal or external world.


Now, I was thinking about what you said, so the best idea I can come up with is:

Playing go, and doing just that, not playing go and criticising or judging your moves but rather being wholly absorbed in the act of placing the stones, estimating the score and so on, might be loosly analaguous to mindful eating or mindful walking or whatever. To think about our moves but to play mindfully if that makes sense. To be aware of the thinking as it happens rather than subsuming ourselves in the thinking.

But I'm very much a novice in this area, so I'm sure I'm very wrong.

[EdLee]

One form/idea is to completely clear your mind (e.g. sitting, standing, running, jogging, swimming, martial arts, etc.)
Another form/idea is to live fully in the moment (which also includes the above examples, plus live theater, etc.) -- Go can be here.

[Boidhre]

One form/idea is to completely clear your mind (e.g. sitting, standing, running, jogging, swimming, martial arts, etc.)
Another form/idea is to live fully in the moment (which also includes the above examples, plus live theater, etc.) -- Go can be here.

Thanks Ed, that's nice and simple.