punishing joseki

[xed_over]

Even 5kyus should know the disastrous continuation?

I guess that's whats holding me back from crossing that line... I don't know it.

[aconley]

I do see this happen a lot in my games (right around that 5-7k level),
so it is worth knowing. Sometimes Black even tries to save the cutting
stones and ends up losing the stones at the top.

$$B
$$---------------
$$| . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . O O X . . X .
$$| . . O X X O . . .
$$| . . O X . . . . .
$$| . 1 X 2 . . . . .
$$| . . O . . . . . .
$$| . . . . . . . . .

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B
$$---------------
$$| . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . O O X . . X .
$$| . . O X X O . . .
$$| . . O X . . . . .
$$| . 1 X 2 . . . . .
$$| . . O . . . . . .
$$| . . . . . . . . .[/go]

[EdLee]

$$B
$$---------------
$$| . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . O O X . . B .
$$| . . O X X O . a .
$$| . . O X . . . . .
$$| . 1 X 2 . . . . .
$$| . . O . . . . . .
$$| . . . . . . . . .

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B
$$---------------
$$| . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . O O X . . B .
$$| . . O X X O . a .
$$| . . O X . . . . .
$$| . 1 X 2 . . . . .
$$| . . O . . . . . .
$$| . . . . . . . . .[/go]

You probably meant at (a) ?

[aconley]

Oops, yes.

[malweth]

Even 5kyus should know the disastrous continuation?

I guess that's whats holding me back from crossing that line... I don't know it.

I have crossed that line and don't know it.

I still think an intensive study of Joseki is significantly less helpful to the DDK than the SDK. I also think it's somewhat less helpful to the SDK than the dan player. (And continuing that line of thought, it's a bit less helpful to the dan player than the pro player, but that may not be true - I have no basis).

CXUD - at 20k, if you know 10 basic joseki you're ahead of the game. Don't worry about joseki until you're at least SDK. Punishing joseki is easily a dan level topic.

I don't get these kinds of comments. Easy example: 5 kyus should know the following is bad and the punishment.

$$B
$$ --------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . 5 4 2 . . |
$$ , . . . . . X X . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ , . . . . . , . . . |

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B
$$ --------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . 5 4 2 . . |
$$ , . . . . . X X . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

Understand that:

The only advice any of us can give is based on our own personal experience (there's no rulebook here).
Two players of the same level can have widely varying experiences. This is especially true in the kyu ranks.
The OP was listed as 20k, not 5k. Further, after CXUD clarified his rank, he is still not 5k. A 5k player can certainly engage in "dan level topics." Perhaps levels of SDK are determined by how many higher level topics have been studied.

Even when referring to books on the subject, pro players or scientists do not always agree.

My overall advice: listen to everyone, ignore everyone, and make a plan that you'll enjoy the most.