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 Post subject: Re: A question on openings.
Post #41 Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:54 am 
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Joelnelsonb wrote:
Those are perfect examples of what I'm talking about, Bill (Thanks!). I wonder why this concept seems to be so reinforced in beginner books if its seemingly incorrect. My suspicion is that it's highly misunderstood given that I continually see my peers playing the same way I do. That being said, sounds like I need to re-empty my cup and go back to the fuseki drawing board.


It's not really incorrect, as it's simple to demonstrate that you need the fewest stones to securely surround points in the corner, then the side, then the center. So it's worth bearing those things in mind as options at any point, and that sequence you describe (corners, long sides, short sides) actually is more or less the order you'll see in many if not most pro games. But part of the beauty of go is that you can play and win in many different ways, as Bill's games demonstrated, and that some of the strongest bots are now also demonstrating.

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 Post subject: Re: A question on openings.
Post #42 Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 2:34 pm 
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quantumf wrote:
Joelnelsonb wrote:
Those are perfect examples of what I'm talking about, Bill (Thanks!). I wonder why this concept seems to be so reinforced in beginner books if its seemingly incorrect. My suspicion is that it's highly misunderstood given that I continually see my peers playing the same way I do. That being said, sounds like I need to re-empty my cup and go back to the fuseki drawing board.


It's not really incorrect, as it's simple to demonstrate that you need the fewest stones to securely surround points in the corner, then the side, then the center. So it's worth bearing those things in mind as options at any point, and that sequence you describe (corners, long sides, short sides) actually is more or less the order you'll see in many if not most pro games. But part of the beauty of go is that you can play and win in many different ways, as Bill's games demonstrated, and that some of the strongest bots are now also demonstrating.


It's worth bearing in mind, also, that these games were played prior to the development of most if not all fuseki theory. They played based on fighting strength, and until you are at the peak and still need something besides fighting strength to get an edge, there's no real need to develop it. There's been a lot of research in go over the past 1200 years, after all.

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 Post subject: Re: A question on openings.
Post #43 Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 4:02 pm 
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Bill Spight wrote:

Not to mention:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Or


This one. :twisted:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , 4 . . |
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$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , 3 . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Somebody mentioned that Go is so much more complex than Chess that you have a lot more freedom and that's true. I remember when I started it was like an adventure, anything seemed possible. Of course like in life the more you learn and the better you get the more all things narrow down and top pro's would probably only consider a handful of openings playable in a serious match.

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 Post subject: Re: A question on openings.
Post #44 Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:20 am 
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Pippen wrote:

Somebody mentioned that Go is so much more complex than Chess that you have a lot more freedom and that's true.


It's true of course, but even if you spent 100 years playing chess, you'd still get nowhere in terms of mastering perfect play. But I guess if you're playing a game, it's nice to point out that theoretically speaking it's more complex than others.

Also, just because there's more freedom to chose between twenty moves in chess and only two or three moves in a typical card game doesn't mean you can use cards in a chess game.

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