Hi guys,

I've attached a sgf with a bunch of variations for orthodox.
In the variation "R10 R8 R14 R12":
Is the move Q12 a bad move ? and what would be the best reply ?
I keep getting this move against me when playing like this and I did not find a good way to reply.

Thanks!,
Otenki

First, what is your idea behind B R12 ?Kind of an understatement.

One idea: see the variation W R10 B R8 W R14 B R12 W S12 B O17 Q12.

Curiosity; are these variations you found in some source, or your own ideas, or?

I don't think it's good. You give Black influence and all you get is to connect underneath for meager territory. This is only something you'd consider in a bad situation. The variation suggested by EdLee only applies if W plays S12 first, not Q12.

_________________
金角银边草肚皮

I think my question is more like generaly what do i do when someone attaches on the top (i know what to do at the bottom to my invasion into the 3 space extension.
Can i simply hane up and try to build influence this way ? But then white can cut.

What I want is influence towards center (and continue build my moyo/framework) and to keep white low, not sure how i could do this.

Oh and the source is:

http://www.fortmyersgo.org/2010/03/25/t ... ox-fuseki/

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 1 X 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 3 . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This result is better for black than white. Black has a powerful ponnuki in the center, which also works well with his 4-4 stone.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 1 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 3 . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This result is also bad for white. The stone is badly damaged by black's three stones.

_________________
Memories of a sorceress girl
Endless fascination with the secrets of the world

This is exactly what I was looking for, I understand in which direction I should be going with this now.
I'll try a few more variations on a board by myself and then go ahead and try it out in my games.

Thanks a lot !,
(genki) Otenki