I'm trying a new idea here.

I've seen many games in which DDKs - and higher - play moves that lower the value of their own stones. I'm thinking that it might be a useful exercise to figure out what stones are worth in some randomly chosen position.

Assume that you are black in the following position. It is white to move. The one unusual thing about this variation of go is that one player can offer to pay the other to remove a stone. In other words, prior to making his move, white says, "I'll give you 10 prisoners if I can remove K14 from the board before I move."

Would you accept? Probably not, for white could then play at K14 or L14 and capture the black group on the upper side.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$c
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$$ | . . O X . . X . X X O . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O . . . . . O X O . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . X . . B . O X . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
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$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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What would white have to pay you for K14? 25 prisoners? 30 prisoners? 35 prisoners?

How about a different stone: the one at B4? I'd sell it for 10 stones without thinking twice.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$c
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$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O O . X . O . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . X X O . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O . . . . . O X O . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . X . . X . O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . O . X . O X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
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$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . B O O . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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So that is the idea. I'd like to hear your opinion on what five individual stones are worth: the ones at K14, B4, C6, D16, and R9. What is the minimum price that you would accept for any single one of them?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O O . X . O . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O B . . X . X X O . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O . . . . . O X O . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . X . . B . O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . O . X . O X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O B . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . B O O . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . X X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

My numbers are:
K14: 40
B4: 6
C6: 8
D16: 3
R9: 10

How much do i have to pay to add a stone at P3?

How much is it worth to you?

You give me 10$ each, you can take as many as you want.

But seriously Joaz, this is an interesting idea, and while I have no idea how to determine the values, it is a nice reminder that each stone should be earning points.

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"When you are learning, it is not so important whether you are right or wrong." - Bill Spight

A side note: I'm not convinced black is alive even with k14. I haven't tried to read out all the variations though.

k14: 32
d16: 4
r9: 15
b4: 2
c6: 5

p3: 24

I'll take a shot at this.

K14: 42
B4: 4
C6: 6
D16:4
R9: 16

D16: 10
K14: 60
R9: 25
D6: 5
B4: 10

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金角银边草肚皮

I sense another game variant brewing...

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When you think your opponent has made a mistake, that's when you should be the most cautious.

wowh, it's really funny idea. I mean I just found out this idea right now. and if U can remove some stones with just a value, it's not considering as go normal. maybe it can be a new variation of go.

no need to restrict it to 1 stone. How much is removing the 5 stones around Q9 worth? How much is sente worth?