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 Post subject: Re: New: Capturing Races 1
Post #21 Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 1:23 pm 
Judan

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Thank you for the detailed reminder of how much work kos in approach defects create! :)

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Post #22 Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:35 pm 
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Honestly kos and all are nice but what trips me up in actual games are joints. Bamboo and diagonal, specifically. Because the defender has a choice of whether they will respond to defend the joint or not when attacked. So it makes counting liberties in an actual game rather difficult, because you potentially have several different counts depending on whether someone can pull the salamander defense or not. I'm slowly starting to figure it out but I'd still say they easily confuse me in actual games and problems.

Hunter's book briefly treats bamboo joints, but it feels more like an afterthought than a core part. I didn't see anything in the table of contents for this book which would indicate a more thorough treatment here, either :(

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Post #23 Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:35 pm 
Judan

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Bamboo joints belong to a special type of shape defects, which (shape defects in general(?) rather than only bamboo) I plan to discuss in a later volume. There is little sense in knowing one particular shape but not knowing every other shape.

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Post #24 Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:25 am 
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RobertJasiek wrote:
There is little sense in knowing one particular shape but not knowing every other shape.


:shock:

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Post #25 Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:15 pm 
Gosei

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daal wrote:
RobertJasiek wrote:
There is little sense in knowing one particular shape but not knowing every other shape.


:shock:


Shock indeed. Most people learn commonly appearing shapes/patterns. Unless you want to turn pro, you don't learn everything. how much you learn depends on your intelligence/dilligence

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 Post subject: Re: New: Capturing Races 1
Post #26 Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:26 pm 
Judan

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Javaness2 wrote:
Shock indeed. Most people learn commonly appearing shapes/patterns. Unless you want to turn pro, you don't learn everything. how much you learn depends on your intelligence/dilligence


How much somebody learns depends on a) his intelligence / dilligence, b) the scope of the available study material and c) other factors.

Even pros don't have to learn everything. Probably you want to say that players preferring to stay weak or improve more slowly can afford not to study at all or study only a little.

A book starting and ending with bamboo joints gives the reader little food for improvement related to shape defects. Contrarily a book teaching much or even everything gives the reader as much food as he wants to have: If does not want to improve at all, he does not read the book. If he wants to improve only a tiny bit, then he reads only the bamboo joint section. If he wants to improve a lot, then he will try to understand everything in the book as quickly as possible.

"Most people learn commonly appearing shapes/patterns." Really? I would even say: "All people." But what does this convey? It distracts from other important aspects of learning: principles, decision making, reading, values etc.

Shock? Are you afraid of becoming stronger?:) The real shock: As usual for my books, also professionals can learn from them (provided they read them).

About shapes and patterns once more: Vol. 1 works almost independently from shapes or patterns (except for the possible presence of an eye) because the basics of capturing races are a matter of numbers of liberties. A later study of weak eyes is more suitable for a shape approach but still numbers of liberties will be what matters.

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Post #27 Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:20 pm 
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Honestly I'd be happy to figure out even a single thing in go lol. I always come back to things I "know" and find my knowledge was actually superficial and lacking in some specific, but key, regard. Usually I come to this realization in that reflective moment when my opponent is removing my stones from the board. :P

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Post #28 Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:44 am 
Judan

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Start with this fundamental: Connect your important strings so as to have life, always verify whether they are still connected and never forget to do that verification!


This post by RobertJasiek was liked by 2 people: daal, RBerenguel
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 Post subject: Re: New: Capturing Races 1
Post #29 Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:26 am 
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Is a review written by a reader of the book available?

While I know I make mistakes in capturing races I believe improving my reading skills to a point where I can read out 99.4% of (usually not highly branching) capturing races is more realistic than both learning and correctly applying the full liberty and semeai categorization tree.

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Post #30 Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:35 am 
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robert:
do you have any feedback of your books from professionals from korea?
i can not see why any korean in right mind will purchase your book about ko and capturing race.

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Post #31 Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:38 am 
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It's a pretty new book and in English. I doubt any Korean professional would have bought it if they intend to buy it at all. I also doubt Robert has freely given his books to Korean professionals for review purposes.

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Post #32 Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:44 pm 
Judan

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tapir, a review by a reader does not seem to be available yet.

By improving your reading skills, you can improve on semeai solving. In fact, you can improve on every aspect of the game that way. Everybody knows though that go cannot be solved by brute force. Strategy, judgement, reasoning and decision making are used for knowing WHAT to read and HOW to compare variations meaningfully with each other so that the total thinking time spent on solution finding becomes short(er). For the explained semeai classes, my book replaces most reading by principles for decision making about numbers of liberties. This is faster than reading, which can involve several (or even many) variations. It is also safer than reading because a principle tells the truth regardless of how many variations one overlooks.

My semeai categorization and its presentation in the book are designed specifically for easy learning: Equal types are grouped, related cases are ordered in a consistent manner and the semeai formula is made equally applicable for all cases of the accessible classes.

Things are different in the classes with initial atari or unstable eye: There the cases are not so easily learnt and reading up to about 5 moves deep is probably easier. From a player's perspective, the case study for those "trivial" classes is mainly a tool for not overlooking aspects such as unexpected timing of removals of eye-fillers or ko threat considerations.

In capturing races, it is particularly easy to deceive oneself of having found a fake status solution. Approach defects, kos of different behaviours etc. can often provide enough food for thought. Like in every aspect of the game, knowing the fundamentals (here, as in the book, of basic semeais) very well allows one to concentrate on the difficulties immediately. You say that you can solve 99.4% of your semeais by reading but this misses the point: Semeais must be solved before they are constructed and when the surrounding regions are still rather open; then sheer reading can be too complex easily. However, if you know the semeai types and cases, then you can make related good strategic decisions in time. When I watch games at about 4d level, I see two types of players: one type relies on reading and makes major strategic mistakes because of not understanding the principles when a semeai should be constructed - another type relies on principles and knowledge of semeai types and makes major semeai-related strategic mistakes only occasionally when under time pressure. So I do not buy your figure. When the semeai is already there so that you can reach such a high percentage of reading it out, it is too late (unless you are lucky)!

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Post #33 Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:56 pm 
Judan

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Magicwand, I have not written a book on ko yet - "only" piles of research papers and the like:)

No Asian professional player has commented to me on any of my books yet. It is their mistake not to read my books! I know your opinion that Koreans can read everything. Of course, you are wrong. Reading relies first of all on knowing what not to read. There my book is a great help. The Korean professional saves thinking time by identifying fighting liberties and applying the New Semeai Formula. In Korean tournaments with insanely short thinking times, this is especially important.

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Post #34 Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:06 pm 
Judan

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tchan001 wrote:
I also doubt Robert has freely given his books to Korean professionals for review purposes.


Why should I give it them for free? The book is well worth its price also for them.

(You can't mean the proofreading stage, can you? The real work was not the proofreading but my earlier research.)

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Post #35 Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 6:48 pm 
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[quote="RobertJasiek]
Why should I give it them for free? The book is well worth its price also for them.
[/quote]
comment made above is from you and is extreamly biased. therefore useless comment.

then do you have any postive reviews from anyone over 6 dan?
if so please share them..
i will not ask for negative reviews since i doubt you will share that in the forum.

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Post #36 Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 1:02 am 
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Robert, I didn't say I can now solve 99.4% correctly, but I believe by improving my reading it might be possible to have quite good success. Many mistakes in semeai are due to relying on formulas (well, you will say: it is the wrong formula) instead of reading after all. Never mind. As always, I believe you could improve the commercial success of your books by making less fantastic claims about professionals who might learn from it. It is much more important that it is useful for 10 kyus or 5 kyus than professionals anyway. I read "a professional can learn from this" as "this is likely too complicated for me, do not bother to read this", I doubt this is what you want.

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Post #37 Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 1:37 am 
Judan

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Biased? Yes. Wrong? No. A book is worth its price for a professional if 1) it teaches them something new, 2) more efficient thinking, 3) more on the same topic (status assessment of two basic group semeais) than any other source and 4) how to teach their pupils more clearly than before. The book does all that:

(1) fighting liberties as a clear concept; basic terms (semeai eye, (un)stable, strong / weak) defined and distinguished from each other clearly; complete structure of basic classes, types and cases; New Semeai Formula; definition of semeai classes 1 and 2 so that they are useful for players, the formula applies to these classes consistently and its scope is used well; principles are correct (yes, for player-orientated semeai literature this is new; unlike proverbs or some previous literture, I teach truth instead of selling partial falsehoods as fake truth).

(2) counting instead of reading wherever possible; a more generally applicable formula instead of unclearly structured ideas or some old formula with cumbersome exception handling; clear concepts and terms so that no time is wasted on thinking about which is which but principles can be related to the cases clearly and (because of structure and grouping) efficiently.

(3) Tell us if you know any other sources for players teaching at least 50% of the book's topic while teaching truths instead of partial falsehoods! Where is the Asian book that teaches significantly more and better on capturing races than false proverbs like "One eye beats no eyes!"?

(4) Structure, concepts, principles and formula as explained in the book allow for much clearer teaching of pupils than all I have seen in professional players' teaching or books about capturing races. Even The Second Book of Go (written by an amateur) does it better.

Magicwand wrote:
do you have any postive reviews from anyone over 6 dan?


There are no reviews by others on the book yet, but - since you know that - apparently you mean "comments". AFAIK, 7d+ have not commented on my books yet. Dinerstein appears to have read my Ko and Dame Endgames paper though; he applied it when criticising Shikshin's mistake in a game against me.

Do 7d+ comment on English books at all? I do not recall such comments but maybe you have heard some?

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i will not ask for negative reviews since i doubt you will share that in the forum.


Your doubts do not guide my behaviour.

There has been a negative review by Paul Conradi on Joseki 2 Strategy in Deutsche Go-Zeitung. A review where the "reviewer" failed to make a proper review when, e.g., not mentioning most of the contents.

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Post #38 Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 2:05 am 
Judan

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tapir wrote:
Many mistakes in semeai are due to relying on formulas (well, you will say: it is the wrong formula)


Exactly. When applying formulas, a) they need to be correct and b) one must know when they do and when they don't apply.

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you could improve the commercial success of your books by making less fantastic claims about professionals who might learn from it.


Fantastic?! You appear to have doubts. What have you learnt from professional players about capturing races? I have learnt nothing explicit. Everything implicit was hidden in problem books. What I have learnt about capturing races came about 10% from amateur club teachers, 10% from generalising knowledge hidden in problem books (and the several thousands of problems I have read there) written by amateurs or professional players, 20% from Hunter's book, 10% from other English literature, 50% from my own research.

The professional players' contribution to semeai theory is so small that I say "realistic" rather than "fantastic".

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It is much more important that it is useful for 10 kyus or 5 kyus than professionals anyway.


Why? Go theory is for all players - not only for 10k to 5k players! All deserve better theory! If you ask on average which level can learn the most, I'd say about 5 kyu.

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I read "a professional can learn from this" as "this is likely too complicated for me, do not bother to read this", I doubt this is what you want.


What I want to say is: Readers of all levels (above absolute beginners) can learn from the book because its presentation makes that easy. That even professionals can learn is caused by the previous gaps and confusion in semeai theory.

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Post #39 Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 10:01 am 
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RobertJasiek wrote:
Why should I give it them for free? The book is well worth its price also for them.
Well, it's your call, but a free review copy may be a good investment if you find an open-minded reader.

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Post #40 Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 10:48 am 
Judan

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hyperpape wrote:
a free review copy may be a good investment if you find an open-minded reader.


My last free copy investment with an already published review was the mentioned reviewer's failure, whom I had expected to be open-minded but the task of writing a review was too unfamiliar for him. Now I rather think that usually a serious reviewer must be willing to buy the book to feel motivation to evaluate it in comparison to the expense and to have the serious intention of reading the book carefully to fully appreciate the contents.

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