#244 Bill vs Ed

Bill Spight · **#161**

paK0 wrote:

Much of Black's advantage lies in central influence, so it is not that easy to count. However, my sense is that White has eliminated more than half the advantage of the 6 stone handicap.

Edit: Unhidden.

Bill Spight · **#162**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm72 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . X . . . , . . . . a B . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . b X O . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . X . . . . . . 1 . . . | $$ | . . . . X . X X O . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . X . . O . | $$ | . . X X X O . O O X . . . . O X X O . | $$ | . X O O X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . | $$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

And here I thought that the question was whether to connect at "a" or "b".

In another thread Bill wonders about playing prophylacticly. Leaving two cutting points behind is not particularly prophylactic.

In other contexts, :b72:

is usual. But here Black has strength towards the bottom, while White has strength towards the top. So I lean towards "a" to protect the :bc:

stone. But sacrificing that stone to build up a wall is another idea.

Edit: Unhidden.

EdLee · **#163**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wm73 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . X . . . , . . . . 1 X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . X . X X O . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . X . . O . | $$ | . . X X X O . O O X . . . . O X X O . | $$ | . X O O X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . | $$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

( Local time Sat Nov 22, 2014. 1:08 pm )

Aidoneus · **#164**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm74 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . X . . . , . . . 1 O X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . X . X X O . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . X . . O . | $$ | . . X X X O . O O X . . . . O X X O . | $$ | . X O O X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . | $$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

Joaz Banbeck · **#165**

EdLee wrote:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wm73 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . X . . . , . . . . 1 X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . X . X X O . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . X . . O . | $$ | . . X X X O . O O X . . . . O X X O . | $$ | . X O O X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . | $$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

IMHO, this may be premature: it makes the game rather simple for black.

I would have tried to complicate a little more, maybe get some more center presence to support a running fight that may start on the right.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wm73 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . O X . . 1 . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . X . X X O . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . X . . O . | $$ | . . X X X O . O O X . . . . O X X O . | $$ | . X O O X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . | $$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

That cutting point will still be there later.

Bill Spight · **#166**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wm73 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . X . . . , . . . . 1 X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X W O . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . X . X X O . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . X . . O . | $$ | . . X X X O . O O X . . . . O X X O . | $$ | . X O O X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . | $$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

Joaz makes an interesting point that maybe the cut is premature. OTOH, if you are not going to cut, why play the :wc:

stone?

Anyway, here is another thought.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wm73 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . X . . . , 1 . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . X . X X O . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . X . . O . | $$ | . . X X X O . O O X . . . . O X X O . | $$ | . X O O X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . | $$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

Edit: Unhidden.

Joaz Banbeck · **#167**

EdLee · **#168**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wm75 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . | $$ | . . O X . X . . . , . . . X O X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . X . X X O . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . X . . O . | $$ | . . X X X O . O O X . . . . O X X O . | $$ | . X O O X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . | $$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

( Local time Sun Nov 23, 2014. 10:43 am )

Aidoneus · **#169**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm76 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . 1 O . . . . | $$ | . . O X . X . . . , . . . X O X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . X . X X O . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . X . . O . | $$ | . . X X X O . O O X . . . . O X X O . | $$ | . X O O X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . | $$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

EdLee · **#170**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wm77 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . O X . X . . . , . . . X O X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . 1 X O O . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . X . X X O . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . X . . O . | $$ | . . X X X O . O O X . . . . O X X O . | $$ | . X O O X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . | $$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

( Local time Sun Nov 23, 2014. 11:28 am )

Bill Spight · **#171**

Aidoneus wrote:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm76 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . 1 O . . . . | $$ | . . O X . X . . . , . . . X O X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . X . X X O . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . X . . O . | $$ | . . X X X O . O O X . . . . O X X O . | $$ | . X O O X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . | $$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

No thought, just continuing from my earlier read.

I agree with his play, but Bill should at least consider the solid connection for a second or two. As Krogius pointed out about chess, the sight of the actual board is different from the mental image.

Edit: Unhidden.

Aidoneus · **#172**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm78 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . O X . X . . . , . . . X O X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . 1 X O . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . X . X X O . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . X . . O . | $$ | . . X X X O . O O X . . . . O X X O . | $$ | . X O O X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . | $$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

EdLee · **#173**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wm79 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . O X . X . . . , . . . X O X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . 1 . . . . . . O X O O . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . X . X X O . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . X . . O . | $$ | . . X X X O . O O X . . . . O X X O . | $$ | . X O O X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . | $$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

( Local time Mon Nov 24, 2014. 07:48 am )

Aidoneus · **#174**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm80 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . O X . X . . . , . . . X O X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . . . . . 1 O X O O . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . X . X X O . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . X . . O . | $$ | . . X X X O . O O X . . . . O X X O . | $$ | . X O O X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . | $$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

EdLee · **#175**

Bill Spight · **#176**

Aidoneus wrote:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm80 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . O X . X . . . , . . . X O X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . . . . . 1 O X O O . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . X . X X O . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . X . . O . | $$ | . . X X X O . O O X . . . . O X X O . | $$ | . X O O X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . | $$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

I also considered playing G10, which I suspect is objectively better--probably with a follow-up at E12 for shape. However, I really want to play P12, and I think enticing White to play G10, will give me P12 in sente and with follow-ups at Q12 and/or P13. And I might even get back to play E12.

if Black wants to play P-12, there is nothing wrong with doing so right away.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm80 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 1 3 . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O 2 4 . . | $$ | . . O X . X . . . , . . . X O X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . . . . . a W X O O . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . X . X X O . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . X . . O . | $$ | . . X X X O . O O X . . . . O X X O . | $$ | . X O O X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . | $$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

In fact, the play at "a" does not turn :b80:

and

into sente. The threat to capture the White stones is greater without "a" because then the :wc:

stone is obviously badly placed. Also, :b84:

is a real alternative to "a", since it prepares to attack the :wc:

stone if it runs.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm80 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . O X . X 1 . . , . . . X O X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O 2 . . . . . O X O O . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . X . X X O . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . X . . O . | $$ | . . X X X O . O O X . . . . O X X O . | $$ | . X O O X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . | $$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

here (G-10) is questionable because it invites :w81:

, pushing White into the central Black framework.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm80 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . O X . X . . . , . . . X O X . . . | $$ | . . O 1 . . O . . . . . . O X O O . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . X . X X O . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . X . . O . | $$ | . . X X X O . O O X . . . . O X X O . | $$ | . X O O X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . | $$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

Cutting White off is where Black would really like to go, but with the strength difference that could end in disaster.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm80 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . O X . X . . . , . . . X O X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . W . 1 . . . . O X O O . . | $$ | . O X W W . . . . . . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . X . X X O . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . X . . O . | $$ | . . X X X O . O O X . . . . O X X O . | $$ | . X O O X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . | $$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

The jump looks practical, because it enlarges the Black framework while attacking the :wc:

stones. Note that it also attacks the O-09 stone, as well.

Edit: Unhidden.

Uberdude · **#177**

Notice the inefficient empty triangle:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm80 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . O X . X . . . , . . . X O X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . . . . . 1 O X O O . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . X . . . . . . B . . . | $$ | . . . . X . X X O . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . X . . O . | $$ | . . X X X O . O O X . . . . O X X O . | $$ | . X O O X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . | $$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

Black could remove this stone from the board and his position would be almost as good as now, i.e. this move has very little value, has become almost a pass.

Avoiding this empty triangle is why when black extends there, the normal shape is to then extend rather than atari for 74:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm74 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . . | $$ | . . O X . X . . . , . . . . O X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . 1 X O O . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . X . X X O . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . X . . O . | $$ | . . X X X O . O O X . . . . O X X O . | $$ | . X O O X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . | $$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

Black now threatens a ladder at a so if white defends there black takes sente, a significant improvement on the game (where he took gote, twice!). It's usually bad to atari the cutting stone like Aidoneus did in the game, particularly if you need to come back and defend your own problem like he (unnecessarily) did with 80. White could try to defend in a more active way as below which leaves black with a cut at a:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm74 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . X . . . , . . 3 2 O X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . a 1 X O O . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . X . X X O . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . X . . O . | $$ | . . X X X O . O O X . . . . O X X O . | $$ | . X O O X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . | $$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

But better to avoid this cut in the first place by connecting there, using the strength of the wall below. White can't break into the centre, just gets a small reduction.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm72 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . X . . . , . . . . 1 B . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . 3 X O . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . X . . . . . 5 2 4 . . | $$ | . . . . X . X X O . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . X . . O . | $$ | . . X X X O . O O X . . . . O X X O . | $$ | . X O O X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . | $$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

(More advanced) It is also important to notice that white has not connected to the top right group yet, so black can use threats against this, for example if in the fighting on the top side black can get a stone at 1 and white answers in the centre then he can safely block at 3 later to make a big corner (thought white still has clamp), which now becomes practically sente and white ought to connect at 4 (4 is where it is rather than 1 space below to avoid giving black a in sente to protect the corner). Of course in a handicap game white will likely get the huge point of r18 (and in fake sente too!) before black gets to do anything good here.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . 3 . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O a | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . X . . . , . . . . X X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . X . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . . X . X X O . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . X . . O . | $$ | . . X X X O . O O X . . . . O X X O . | $$ | . X O O X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . | $$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

skydyr · **#178**

paK0 wrote:

Bill Spight · **#179**

@ Uberdude

Uberdude wrote:

Notice the inefficient empty triangle:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm80 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . O X . X . . . , . . . X O X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . . . . . 1 O X O O . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . X . . . . . . B . . . | $$ | . . . . X . X X O . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . X . . O . | $$ | . . X X X O . O O X . . . . O X X O . | $$ | . X O O X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . | $$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

Black could remove this stone from the board and his position would be almost as good as now, i.e. this move has very little value, has become almost a pass.

{snip}

But better to avoid this cut in the first place by connecting there, using the strength of the wall below. White can't break into the centre, just gets a small reduction.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm72 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . X . . . , . . . . 1 B . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . 3 X O . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . X . . . . . 5 2 4 . . | $$ | . . . . X . X X O . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . X . . O . | $$ | . . X X X O . O O X . . . . O X X O . | $$ | . X O O X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . | $$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

Glad that we agree about :b72:

.

Quote:

Avoiding this empty triangle is why when black extends there, the normal shape is to then extend rather than atari for 74:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm74 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . X . . W . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . . | $$ | . . O X . X . . . , . . . . O X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . 1 X O O . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . X . X X O . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . X . . O . | $$ | . . X X X O . O O X . . . . O X X O . | $$ | . X O O X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . | $$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

Black now threatens a ladder at a

Except that :wc:

is a ladder breaker. (A rare oversight.)

Edit: Unhidden.

EdLee · **#180**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wm81 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . X . . O . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O X . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . O X . X . . . , . . . X O X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . . . . . X O X O O . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . X . X X O . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . X . . O . | $$ | . . X X X O . O O X . . . . O X X O . | $$ | . X O O X O . . . X . . X X X O O . . | $$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

( Local time Tue Nov 25, 2014. 07:58 am )

#244 Bill vs Ed

Who is online