151. Shadonra vs. illluck

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illluck
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Re: 151. Shadonra vs. illluck

Post by illluck »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm121 Prisoners: B-2 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X X X O O X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . O . O X X X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . O O X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X O O O X . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . X X X X O O O . X O X O . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X O O X 9 . . X O X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O . X , . . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . 0 . . . . . X . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . O . X . O . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . O . . . O X X X O . |
$$ | . . O X . O O O O X . O . X O X O . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X X O O . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Shaddy
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Re: 151. Shadonra vs. illluck

Post by Shaddy »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm131 Prisoners: B-2 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X X X O O X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . O . O X X X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . O O X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X O O O X . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . X X X X O O O . X O X O . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X O O X X . . X O X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O . X , . . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . . . . . X . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . O . X . O . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . O . . . O X X X O . |
$$ | . . O X . O O O O X . O . X O X O . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X X O O . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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illluck
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Re: 151. Shadonra vs. illluck

Post by illluck »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm131 Prisoners: B-2 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X X X O O X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . O . O X X X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . O O X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X O O O X . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . X X X X O O O . X O X O . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X O O X X . . X O X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O . X , . . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . . 2 . . X . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . O . X . O . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . O . . . O X X X O . |
$$ | . . O X . O O O O X . O . X O X O . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X X O O . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Black's last move is quite annoying as it removes my potential while enlarging his. I considered just trying to connect back with a one-point jump, but I don't see a very clear connection and even if I do I think I'm behind and can't afford moves like that. This move seeks to create some sort of liberty issues.
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Shaddy
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Re: 151. Shadonra vs. illluck

Post by Shaddy »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm131 Prisoners: B-2 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X X X O O X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . O . O X X X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . O O X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X O O O X . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . X X X X O O O . X O X O . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X O O X X . . X O X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O . X 3 . . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . . O . . X . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . O . X . O . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . O . . . O X X X O . |
$$ | . . O X . O O O O X . O . X O X O . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X X O O . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Oh god, I misread really hard.
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illluck
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Re: 151. Shadonra vs. illluck

Post by illluck »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm131 Prisoners: B-2 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X X X O O X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . O . O X X X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . O O X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X O O O X . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . X X X X O O O . X O X O . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X O O X X . . X O X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O 4 X X . . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . . O . . X . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . O . X . O . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . O . . . O X X X O . |
$$ | . . O X . O O O O X . O . X O X O . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X X O O . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Mmm, black decided to back off, makes sense since he is ahead. Black still needs to spend a move to protect and I'll decide on my next move later as I don't feel like I'm up for the thinking tonight. I don't want to push at K9 unless I have to because black will probably capture and I lose the N13/M14 atari endgame. My dilemma is mostly in deciding whether I should cut at C7, peep at it, or something like C10 (if any of them are even possible). It's all so confusing XD
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Shaddy
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Re: 151. Shadonra vs. illluck

Post by Shaddy »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm131 Prisoners: B-2 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X X X O O X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . O . O X X X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . O O X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X O O O X . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . X X X X O O O . X O X O . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X O O X X 5 . X O X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O O X X . . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . . O . . X . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . O . X . O . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . O . . . O X X X O . |
$$ | . . O X . O O O O X . O . X O X O . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X X O O . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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illluck
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Re: 151. Shadonra vs. illluck

Post by illluck »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm131 Prisoners: B-2 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X X X O O X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . O . O X X X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . O O X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X O O O X 6 O X X O . . |
$$ | . . X X X X O O O . X O X O . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X O O X X X . X O X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O O X X . . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . . O . . X . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . O . X . O . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . O . . . O X X X O . |
$$ | . . O X . O O O O X . O . X O X O . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X X O O . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I think I should play this first to see if black will connect or capture - if capture then I have better endgame on top later, if connect I can get the push below in sente. It's a bit dangerous for me as well because black might tenuki and attack the F9 stones first, but I don't see a very convincing attack (also, I can consider just C10 and let the stones go if black plays a harsher sequence than what I can find).
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Uberdude
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Re: 151. Shadonra vs. illluck

Post by Uberdude »

This atari looks fairly ridiculous to me, white trying to be too clever; black should tenuki and h9. If white capture then black f7 kills f11 stones and is much bigger. There's no reason to play this probe now, it's not as if black is going to play a move here soon or you need to make him choose now. And if white answers h9 at f7 then that's a great exchange for black and he can answer the atari. In fact imo white should count himself lucky black didn't consider a trade like below, and that trade is worse for black than the one available now as now black just lets white save 2 stones, but gets to keep his 2 at l12/11.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm131 Trade?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X X X O O X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . O . O X X X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . O O X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X O O O X . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . X X X X O O O a X O X O . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X O O X X 5 6 X O X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O 4 X 7 8 . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . 3 2 9 . X . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X b . . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . O . X . O . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . O . . . O X X X O . |
$$ | . . O X . O O O O X . O . X O X O . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X X O O . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Problem is this trade might not be real, it seems black might (I didn't read in detail) have trouble containing white when he runs due to black giving white that strength at h5/f3 (which I thought was rather generous back when it happened):
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm142 Escape?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X X X O O X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . O . O X X X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . O O X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X O O O X . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . X X X X O O O O . O X O . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X O O X X X O . O X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O O X X O . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . X . X . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . X . . . 1 . . . . . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . O X . . . 2 . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . O . X . O . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . O . . . O X X X O . |
$$ | . . O X . O O O O X . O . X O X O . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X X O O . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
The trade on offer now black gets sente to f7 and kill off those stones.
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Shaddy
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Re: 151. Shadonra vs. illluck

Post by Shaddy »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm131 Prisoners: B-2 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X X X O O X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . O . O X X X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . O O X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X 7 . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X O O O X O O X X O . . |
$$ | . . X X X X O O O . X O X O . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X O O X X X . X O X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O O X X . . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . . O . . X . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . O . X . O . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . O . . . O X X X O . |
$$ | . . O X . O O O O X . O . X O X O . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X X O O . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Thought about not connecting, but looks a little scary, and I want to keep pressuring the top left group.
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illluck
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Re: 151. Shadonra vs. illluck

Post by illluck »

Just a heads up, I may not be able to respond this in the next week or so. Entering the final stretch for the semester :p
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illluck
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Re: 151. Shadonra vs. illluck

Post by illluck »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm131 Prisoners: B-2 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X X X O O X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . O . O X X X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . O O X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X X . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X O O O X O O X X O . . |
$$ | . . X X X X O O O . X O X O . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X O O X X X . X O X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O O X X . . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . . O . . X . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . 8 . . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . O . X . O . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . O . . . O X X X O . |
$$ | . . O X . O O O O X . O . X O X O . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X X O O . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Trying to link up first.
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Shaddy
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Re: 151. Shadonra vs. illluck

Post by Shaddy »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm131 Prisoners: B-2 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X X X O O X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . O . O X X X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . O O X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X X . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X O O O X O O X X O . . |
$$ | . . X X X X O O O . X O X O . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X O O X X X . X O X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O O X X . . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . 9 O . . X . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . O . X . O . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . O . . . O X X X O . |
$$ | . . O X . O O O O X . O . X O X O . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X X O O . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
What?
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illluck
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Re: 151. Shadonra vs. illluck

Post by illluck »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm131 Prisoners: B-2 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X X X O O X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . O . O X X X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . O O X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X X . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X O O O X O O X X O . . |
$$ | . . X X X X O O O . X O X O . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X O O X X X . X O X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O O X X . . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X O . . X . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X 0 . . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . O . X . O . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . O . . . O X X X O . |
$$ | . . O X . O O O O X . O . X O X O . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X X O O . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Shaddy
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Re: 151. Shadonra vs. illluck

Post by Shaddy »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm141 Prisoners: B-2 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X X X O O X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . O . O X X X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . O O X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X X . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X O O O X O O X X O . . |
$$ | . . X X X X O O O . X O X O . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X O O X X X . X O X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O O X X . . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O 1 X O . . X . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O . . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . O . X . O . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . O . . . O X X X O . |
$$ | . . O X . O O O O X . O . X O X O . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X X O O . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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illluck
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Re: 151. Shadonra vs. illluck

Post by illluck »

Wow, I missed the throw-in + ladder variation :oops: I'll read this more carefully sometime next week (only had 2 hours of sleep last night) before resigning.
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