#158 - topazg vs speedchase

Uberdude
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Re: #158 - topazg vs speedchase

Post by Uberdude »

@illluck
Indeed:
Uberdude wrote: There is also the option for white to atari on top with 18 instead of connect.
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Post by EdLee »

illluck,
illluck wrote:I thought with the K3 stone black can resist more harshly?
Did you mean White?
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Re: #158 - topazg vs speedchase

Post by illluck »

@Uberdude and Edlee
Yes and yes. :oops:
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topazg
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Re: #158 - topazg vs speedchase

Post by topazg »

Man, all this strong player chatter already! :-?
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Re: #158 - topazg vs speedchase

Post by speedchase »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 W:0 B:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
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$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O X . 5 |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I was thinking about just taking the ponnuki, and fighting, but I think I can live in sente because he has to protect the cut, so I will reduce.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 W:0 B:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
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$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O X . 5 |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 W:0 B:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 4 . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O X 9 5 |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . O X 6 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a 8 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
:B11: @a
tj86430
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Re: #158 - topazg vs speedchase

Post by tj86430 »

That looks so not right to me.
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Re: #158 - topazg vs speedchase

Post by Sur »

Speedchase really needs to get this "immediately living everywhere" thing out of his head as soon as possible. This is just awful.
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Re: #158 - topazg vs speedchase

Post by Celebrir »

tj86430 wrote:
That looks so not right to me.
It is wrong: EDIT: Missed that it is B's turn here and thought he thought he has meant W hast to ptotect the cut at his 'a' Still the L+2 is better than L+2
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 W:0 B:0
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O X X X |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 O X 3 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
If he wants to live inside, this would be correct (but not good, taking the ponnuki is better)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm15 W:0 B:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O X 1 . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . 6 . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 3 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
B is alive by the L+2 shape. But the corner is very small.
Last edited by Celebrir on Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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topazg
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Re: #158 - topazg vs speedchase

Post by topazg »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 W:0 B:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O X . X |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Hmmm, that's useful! J+1, so he keeps sente, but I get better thickness, and a really good gote reduction later:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 W:0 B:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O X . 5 |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . 0 . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 7 9 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm22 W:0 B:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O 3 |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O X 5 X |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . O . O X a 4 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X 2 1 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
If Black captures, White gets more sente:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm27 W:0 B:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X 2 |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O X O X |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . O . O X 1 X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X X C |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
It's not a big corner, and I think White can be satisfied.
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Re: #158 - topazg vs speedchase

Post by speedchase »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 W:0 B:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O X . X |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 W:0 B:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , 5 . . . . O X . X |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . 4 . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 1 3. . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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topazg
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Re: #158 - topazg vs speedchase

Post by topazg »

You didn't post a move? Am I missing something ?
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Re: #158 - topazg vs speedchase

Post by illluck »

I think white could also have just connected as below. It leaves a bit more weakness, but the hane and connect is not sente for black.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 W:0 B:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O X . X |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: #158 - topazg vs speedchase

Post by speedchase »

Sorry!
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 W:0 B:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O X . X |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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topazg
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Re: #158 - topazg vs speedchase

Post by topazg »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 W:0 B:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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S'ok, wondered if it was me :)
Bill Spight
Honinbo
Posts: 10905
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:24 pm
Has thanked: 3651 times
Been thanked: 3374 times

Re: #158 - topazg vs speedchase

Post by Bill Spight »

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:w16: seems clearly superior to me. :)
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.
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