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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: malkovich #21 - magicwand vs. wms
Post #101 Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 5:08 am 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 55 FOREVER!
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . O . X O O O X O O . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . . , . O O X . X O X X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . . X X . X X O . |
$$ | . O X O O O X X . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . X . . O O . . . . X . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O . . . O X O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X W . X O X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . O X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . O X . O , . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . X . . X . X O . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

i dont know... i am not sure if i can kill top group... i will try.

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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Offline wms
 Post subject: Re: malkovich #21 - magicwand vs. wms
Post #102 Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:45 am 
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KGS: wms
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[go]$$c Move 55 FOREVER!
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . O . X O O O X O O . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . . , . O O X . X O X X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . . X X . X X O . |
$$ | . O X O O O X X . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . X . . O O . . . . X . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O . . . O X O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O . X O X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . B . . O . O X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . O X . O , . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . X . . X . X O . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I would obviously like to play H10, but...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc OUCH OUCH OUCH
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . O . X O O O X O O . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . . , . O O X . X O X X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . . X X . X X O . |
$$ | . O X O O O X X . 5 6 . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . X . . O O . . 4 . X . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O . 2 . O X O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O . X O X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . 3 1 . O . O X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . O X . O , . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . X . . X . X O . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: malkovich #21 - magicwand vs. wms
Post #103 Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:44 am 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 55 FOREVER!
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . O . X O O O X O O . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . . , . O O X . X O X X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . . X X . X X O . |
$$ | . O X O O O X X . W . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . X . . O O . . . . X . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O . . . O X O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O . X O X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X . . O . O X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . O X . O , . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . X . . X . X O . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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Offline wms
 Post subject: Re: malkovich #21 - magicwand vs. wms
Post #104 Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 12:26 pm 
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Sorry, another move that needs thought.

The thing to ponder: Connect out, or make life locally? Both are risky and I need to read out completely to know which can work. A quick read makes it look to me like starting with J13 will force magicwand to either let me connect out, or let me kill G13, but to be really sure I need to spend a fair amount of time studying the position.

If J13 doesn't work, then there is still a possibility that playing K15 or J15 will let me make two eyes. There's some nice aji there.

Overall I think I'm OK, but I really don't want to mess up here.
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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: malkovich #21 - magicwand vs. wms
Post #105 Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:01 pm 
Honinbo

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KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
wms wrote:
Sorry, another move that needs thought.

The thing to ponder: Connect out, or make life locally? Both are risky and I need to read out completely to know which can work. A quick read makes it look to me like starting with J13 will force magicwand to either let me connect out, or let me kill G13, but to be really sure I need to spend a fair amount of time studying the position.

If J13 doesn't work, then there is still a possibility that playing K15 or J15 will let me make two eyes. There's some nice aji there.

Overall I think I'm OK, but I really don't want to mess up here.


If I were white, and black played J13, I'd play J12.

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Offline wms
 Post subject: Re: malkovich #21 - magicwand vs. wms
Post #106 Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:44 pm 
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Posts: 450
Location: Portland, OR USA
Liked others: 257
Was liked: 287
KGS: wms
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 55 FOREVER!
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . O . X O O O X O O . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . . , . O O X . X O X X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . . X X . X X O . |
$$ | . O X O O O X X . O . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . X . . O O . B . . X . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O . . . O X O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O . X O X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X . . O . O X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . O X . O , . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . X . . X . X O . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I still don't understand G12. From where I sit, it did magicwand no good at all; it was aji keshi at best. Well, here's what I see for the next few moves:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Move 55 FOREVER!
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . O . X O O O X O O . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . . , . O O X . X O X X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . . X X . X X O . |
$$ | . O X O O O X X . W 6 . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . X . . O O . X 2 3 X . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O . 1 4 O X O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O . X O X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X 5 . O 7 O X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . O X . O , . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . X . . X . X O . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

So far so good. From here I can play K15 or L15; not sure which is better. K15 lets black play M14 and cut, but I get two eyes. L15 is the better move if it works...but it's tricky, I'll read that out when we get there. Oh, and J11 will work if the other two don't.
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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: malkovich #21 - magicwand vs. wms
Post #107 Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 4:06 am 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 55 FOREVER!
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . O . X O O O X O O . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . . , . O O X . X O X X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . . X X . X X O . |
$$ | . O X O O O X X . O . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . X . . O O . X . . X . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O . W . O X O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O . X O X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X . . O . O X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . O X . O , . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . X . . X . X O . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c 4 is sente he will die.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . O . X O O O X O O . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . . , . O O X . X O X X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . . X X . X X O . |
$$ | . O X O O O X X . O . 4 . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . X . . O O . X 1 2 X . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O . W 3 O X O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O . X O X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X . . O . O X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . O X . O , . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . X . . X . X O . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c same thing here. he will die.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . O . X O O O X O O . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . . , . O O X . X O X X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . . X X . X X O . |
$$ | . O X O O O X X . O 3 4 . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . X . . O O . X 1 2 X . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O . W . O X O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O . X O X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X . . O . O X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . O X . O , . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . X . . X . X O . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: malkovich #21 - magicwand vs. wms
Post #108 Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 5:12 am 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c i think it will get complicated. but i still will be ahead.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . O . X O O O X O O . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . . , . O O X . X O X X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . . X X . X X O . |
$$ | . O X O O O X X . O . O 1 . . X O O . |
$$ | . . X . . O O . X X O X . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O 4 W X O X O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O 3 X O X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X 2 5 O . O X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . 7 6 . . . O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X 8 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . O X . O , . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . X . . X . X O . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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Offline wms
 Post subject: Re: malkovich #21 - magicwand vs. wms
Post #109 Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 11:56 am 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 450
Location: Portland, OR USA
Liked others: 257
Was liked: 287
KGS: wms
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 55 FOREVER!
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . O . X O O O X O O . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . . , . O O X . X O X X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . . X X . X X O . |
$$ | . O X O O O X X . O . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . X . . O O . X B . X . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O . O . O X O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O . X O X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X . . O . O X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . O X . O , . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . X . . X . X O . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So far, all is going according to plan. :twisted:
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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: malkovich #21 - magicwand vs. wms
Post #110 Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 1:43 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 55 FOREVER!
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . O . X O O O X O O . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . . , . O O X . X O X X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . . X X . X X O . |
$$ | . O X O O O X X . O . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . X . . O O . X X W X . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O . O . O X O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O . X O X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X . . O . O X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . O X . O , . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . X . . X . X O . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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Offline wms
 Post subject: Re: malkovich #21 - magicwand vs. wms
Post #111 Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 1:55 pm 
Lives in gote
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Posts: 450
Location: Portland, OR USA
Liked others: 257
Was liked: 287
KGS: wms
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 55 FOREVER!
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . O . X O O O X O O . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . . , . O O X . X O X X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . . X X . X X O . |
$$ | . O X O O O X X . O . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . X . . O O . X X O X . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O . O B O X O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O . X O X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X . . O . O X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . O X . O , . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . X . . X . X O . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Now I see, does he save his stones, or threaten my stones in the upper right? I can drop some of them if I grab F13. Of course if they all go, I'm in trouble. We'll see.
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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: malkovich #21 - magicwand vs. wms
Post #112 Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 3:22 pm 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 55 FOREVER!
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . O . X O O O X O O . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . . , . O O X . X O X X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . . X X . X X O . |
$$ | . O X O O O X X . O . W . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . X . . O O . X X O X . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O . O X O X O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O . X O X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X . . O . O X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . O X . O , . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . X . . X . X O . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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Offline Chew Terr
 Post subject: Re: malkovich #21 - magicwand vs. wms
Post #113 Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 4:03 pm 
Gosei
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Posts: 2060
Location: Texas
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Was liked: 173
Rank: KGS 3k
GD Posts: 264
KGS: Chew
Not for players until the milk in my fridge expires.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 55 FOREVER!
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . O . X O O O X O O . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . . , . O O X . X O X X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . . X X . X X O . |
$$ | . O X O O O X X . O . W . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . X . . O O . X X O X . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O . O X O X O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O . X O X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X B . O . O X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . O X . O , . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . X . . X . X O . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Is D14 going to get cut off and killed?

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Someday I want to be strong enough to earn KGS[-].
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Offline wms
 Post subject: Re: malkovich #21 - magicwand vs. wms
Post #114 Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 6:25 pm 
Lives in gote
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Posts: 450
Location: Portland, OR USA
Liked others: 257
Was liked: 287
KGS: wms
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 55 FOREVER!
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . O . X O O O X O O . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . . , . O O X . X O X X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . . X X . X X O . |
$$ | . O X O O O X X . O . O B . . X O O . |
$$ | . . X . . O O . X X O X . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O . O X O X O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O . X O X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X . . O . O X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . O X . O , . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . X . . X . X O . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Here's what I expect:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Ko. I have lots of inside threats. Not bad at all.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . O . X O O O X O O . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . . , . O O X . X O X X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . . X X . X X O . |
$$ | . O X O O O X X 4 O . O B . . X O O . |
$$ | . . X . . O O 3 X X O X . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O 6 O X O X O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O 2 X O X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X 5 1 O . O X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . O X . O , . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . X . . X . X O . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If magicwand wants to avoid the ko:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc I like my odds here
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . O . X O O O X O O . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . . , . O O X . X O X X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . . X X . X X O . |
$$ | . O X O O O X X . O . O X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . X . . O O . X X O X . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O 3 O X O X O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O 2 X O X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X 1 4 O 7 O X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . 5 9 6 . O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X 8 . 0 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . O X . O , . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . X . . X . X O . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


And if I want to avoid the ko:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc This looks...well...scary.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . O . X O O O X O O . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . . , . O O X 9 X O X X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . . X X 0 X X O . |
$$ | . O X O O O X X . O . O 1 3 4 X O O . |
$$ | . . X . . O O . X X O X 2 5 X O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O . O X O X O 7 8 O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O . X O X 6 X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X B . O . O X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . O X . O , . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . X . . X . X O . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Don't see any good way out.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . O . X O O O X O O . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . . , . O O X 9 X O X X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . . X X 0 X X O . |
$$ | . O X O O O X X . O . O 1 7 8 X O O . |
$$ | . . X . . O O . X X O X 3 6 X O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O . O X O X O 2 5 O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O . X O X 4 X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X B . O . O X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . O X . O , . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . X . . X . X O . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: malkovich #21 - magicwand vs. wms
Post #115 Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 6:50 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 55 FOREVER!
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . O . X O O O X O O . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . . , . O O X . X O X X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . . X X . X X O . |
$$ | . O X O O O X X . O . O X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . X . . O O . X X O X . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O . O X O X O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O . X O X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X W . O . O X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . O X . O , . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . X . . X . X O . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

i guess this will be my last battle.
i can ko of try to kill everything. either way looks good but i will have to study more.
as of now i think i can kill everything but i will have to read more on that.

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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Offline fwiffo
 Post subject: Re: malkovich #21 - magicwand vs. wms
Post #116 Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 7:13 pm 
Gosei
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Posts: 1435
Location: California
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Was liked: 171
Rank: Out of practice
GD Posts: 1104
KGS: fwiffo
wms wrote:
If magicwand wants to avoid the ko:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc I like my odds here
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . O . X O O O X O O . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . . , . O O X . X O X X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . . X X . X X O . |
$$ | . O X O O O X X . O . O X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . X . . O O . X X O X . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O 3 O X O X O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O 2 X O X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X 1 4 O 7 O X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . 5 9 6 . O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X 8 . 0 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . O X . O , . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . X . . X . X O . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc I'm not crazy about black's odds...
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . W . X O O O X O O . |
$$ | . . O O O X . 5 . , . O O X . X O X X |
$$ | . . O X X X 3 4 . . . . X X . X X O . |
$$ | . O X O O O X X 1 W . O X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . X . . O O 2 X X O X . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O O O X O X O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O X X O X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O X O O O X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O O X . O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . O X . O , . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . X . . X . X O . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The marked white stones means the squeeze works by my reading. Black loses the liberty race.

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Offline Hummingbird Cyborg
 Post subject: Re: malkovich #21 - magicwand vs. wms
Post #117 Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 7:40 pm 
Dies in gote

Posts: 27
Liked others: 1
Was liked: 2
Rank: 4kyu
fwiffo wrote:
wms wrote:
If magicwand wants to avoid the ko:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc I like my odds here
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . O . X O O O X O O . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . . , . O O X . X O X X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . . X X . X X O . |
$$ | . O X O O O X X . O . O X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . X . . O O . X X O X . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O 3 O X O X O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O 2 X O X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X 1 4 O 7 O X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . 5 9 6 . O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X 8 . 0 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . O X . O , . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . X . . X . X O . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc I'm not crazy about black's odds...
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . W . X O O O X O O . |
$$ | . . O O O X . 5 . , . O O X . X O X X |
$$ | . . O X X X 3 4 . . . . X X . X X O . |
$$ | . O X O O O X X 1 W . O X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . X . . O O 2 X X O X . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O O O X O X O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O X X O X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O X O O O X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O O X . O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . O X . O , . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . X . . X . X O . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The marked white stones means the squeeze works by my reading. Black loses the liberty race.


I had the same thought without the squeeze. To me, it's just that white can cut.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . O . X O O O X O O . |
$$ | . . O O O X 5 . . , . O O X . X O X X |
$$ | . . O X X X 3 4 . . . . X X . X X O . |
$$ | . O X O O O X X 1 O . O X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . X . . O O 2 X X O X . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O O O X O X O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O X X O X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O X O O O X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O O X . O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . O X . O , . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . X . . X . X O . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


What does black do after this?
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Offline wms
 Post subject: Re: malkovich #21 - magicwand vs. wms
Post #118 Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 10:24 pm 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 450
Location: Portland, OR USA
Liked others: 257
Was liked: 287
KGS: wms
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 55 FOREVER!
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . O . X O O O X O O . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . . , . O O X . X O X X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . . X X . X X O . |
$$ | . O X O O O X X . O . O X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . X . . O O . X X O X . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O . O X O X O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O B X O X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O . O . O X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . O X . O , . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . X . . X . X O . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Not sure if w will fight the ko or not. It'll be a big one if he does, and I think that I have more inside threats than him.
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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: malkovich #21 - magicwand vs. wms
Post #119 Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 10:31 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 55 FOREVER!
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . O . X O O O X O O . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . . , . O O X . X O X X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . . X X . X X O . |
$$ | . O X O O O X X . O . O X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . X . . O O . X X O X . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O W O X O X O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O X X O X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O . O . O X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . O X . O , . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . X . . X . X O . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

i dont think i will lose the ko fight but...i will take safer way to win (to kill everything).

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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Offline wms
 Post subject: Re: malkovich #21 - magicwand vs. wms
Post #120 Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 11:20 pm 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 450
Location: Portland, OR USA
Liked others: 257
Was liked: 287
KGS: wms
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 55 FOREVER!
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . O . X O O O X O O . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . . , . O O X . X O X X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . . X X . X X O . |
$$ | . O X O O O X X . O . O X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . X . . O O . X X O X . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O O O X O X O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O X X O X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O B O . O X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . O X . O , . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . X . . X . X O . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Looks like maybe a ko, but...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc No ko!
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . O . X O O O X O O . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . . , . O O X . X O X X |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . . X X . X X O . |
$$ | . O X O O O X X . O . O X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . X . 6 O O . X X O X . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O O O X O X O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O X X O X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O B O . O X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . 4 1 2 3 O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . 5 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . O X . O , . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . X . . X . X O . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

So this can't be magicwand's plan. I looked at several sequences involving G15, but none worked out well for magicwand. Some of them let him kill F16 I think, but always at a cost, like losing L12 or something like that. So maybe he'll just play H9 like in my sequence a move or two back, or maybe he sees something I don't.
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