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Offline Redundant
 Post subject: Re: 92: Emerus (4k) vs. Redundant (1k)
Post #81 Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 3:40 pm 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 907
Location: Pittsburgh
Liked others: 45
Was liked: 100
Rank: lazy
KGS: redundant/silchas
Tygem: redundant
Wbaduk: redundant
DGS: redundant
OGS: redundant
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O O X . . . . O O X O . |
$$ | . O O O O X O . X X . X O . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X . , . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O X O O X . O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X X O . . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Hane at the head of two stones is natural. I'm aiming at this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O O X . 6 3 4 O O X O . |
$$ | . O O O O X O . X X . X O 2 . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X . , . O X 7 . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O X O O X . O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X X O . . . 1 5 . . X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline emerus
 Post subject: Re: 92: Emerus (4k) vs. Redundant (1k)
Post #82 Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 4:14 pm 
Lives in gote

Posts: 428
Liked others: 3
Was liked: 5
Rank: KGS 1dan
KGS: emerus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O O X . . . . O O X O . |
$$ | . O O O O X O . X X . X O 2 . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X . , . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O X O O X . O B . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X X O . . . 1 . . . X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


[sgf-full](;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[0.00]
GN[Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1]DT[2011-01-28]PC[http://lifein19x19.com/]AW[fa][ha][bb][gb][hb][ib][ob][pb][rb][bc][cc][dc][ec][gc][mc][dd][ed][gd][ld][fe][he][ie][le][df][ff][if][mf][bg][dg][fg][hg][ch][dh][eh][fh][op][lq][oq][pq]AB[ba][cb][db][eb][fb][jb][qb][fc][ic][jc][lc][pc][qc][cd][fd][hd][md][pd][ce][ee][ge][je][me][cf][ef][gf][hf][qf][cg][eg][bh][bi][ci][di][dp][pp][qp][jq][qq]C[Diagram from http://lifein19x19.com/

Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1]PL[B]
(;)
(;B[lf]C[This is my first insctinct to hurt whites shape -]
;W[lb]
;B[kc]
;W[nc]
;B[ke]
;W[ne]
;B[kd]
;W[nd]C[However, my shape is exploitable as well. The fighting seems quite difficult for white but bad aji remains for B.]
;B[nf]
(;W[ka]
;B[ja]
;W[ma]
;B[kb]
(;W[pa]
;B[la]C[At least ko... while white can try to run and destroy my potential.

Oh I just noticed that it's two step... hmmm.... ])
(;W[na])
(;W[nb]C[This is better: one step ko...]
;B[la]
;W[of]
;B[mg]
;W[ka]
;B[pa]
;W[oa]
;B[la]
;W[pe]
;B[qe]
;W[ka]C[But white has internal threats along with moves like d15 to profit elsewhere.]))
(;W[of]
;B[mg]
;W[pe]
;B[qe]
;W[og]
;B[ph]C[Looks very playable for B.]))
(;B[nf]
;W[nd]
;B[ne]
;W[lb]
;B[kc]
;W[mb]
;B[lf]
;W[kf]
;B[lg]
;W[ke]
;B[nc]
;W[nb]
;B[oc]C[White seems to win this capturing race by 1 liberty.])
(;B[nc]C[I dont like the passivity of this move, also it gives white ataris on the outside.]
;W[mb]
;B[nb]
;W[nf]
;B[oe]
(;W[kf])
(;W[on]
;B[lf]
;W[lg]
;B[kf]
;W[kg]C[That's a lot of territory. Maybe I shouldn't be greedy here...])
(;W[pg]C[This shoulder hit looks painful. . .])))[/sgf-full]


Thanks to Loki for telling me about SGF-full tags ^^. Now come and comment on my game........!!!!


Last edited by emerus on Fri Jan 28, 2011 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Redundant
 Post subject: Re: 92: Emerus (4k) vs. Redundant (1k)
Post #83 Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 4:16 pm 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 907
Location: Pittsburgh
Liked others: 45
Was liked: 100
Rank: lazy
KGS: redundant/silchas
Tygem: redundant
Wbaduk: redundant
DGS: redundant
OGS: redundant
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O O X . . W . O O X O . |
$$ | . O O O O X O . X X . X O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X . , . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O X O O X . O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X X O . . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline emerus
 Post subject: Re: 92: Emerus (4k) vs. Redundant (1k)
Post #84 Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 4:20 pm 
Lives in gote

Posts: 428
Liked others: 3
Was liked: 5
Rank: KGS 1dan
KGS: emerus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O O X . . 3 4 O O X O . |
$$ | . O O O O X O . X X . X O 2 . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X . , . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O X O O X . O B . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X X O . . . 1 . . . X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Hey, I think you can open my hide tags up until your kakari in the top right if you want to.
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Offline Redundant
 Post subject: Re: 92: Emerus (4k) vs. Redundant (1k)
Post #85 Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 4:30 pm 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 907
Location: Pittsburgh
Liked others: 45
Was liked: 100
Rank: lazy
KGS: redundant/silchas
Tygem: redundant
Wbaduk: redundant
DGS: redundant
OGS: redundant
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O O X . . O X O O X O . |
$$ | . O O O O X O . X X . X O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X . , . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O X O O X . O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X X O . . . O O . . X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I'm just gonna salvage some influence from this mess.

I'll check to see if mine are safe for you to read. Basically, you can look up until you play the ladder breaker.
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Offline emerus
 Post subject: Re: 92: Emerus (4k) vs. Redundant (1k)
Post #86 Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 4:34 pm 
Lives in gote

Posts: 428
Liked others: 3
Was liked: 5
Rank: KGS 1dan
KGS: emerus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O O X . . O X O O X O . |
$$ | . O O O O X O . X X . X O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X . , . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O X O O X . O X . B . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X X O . . . O O . . X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O O X . . O X O O X O . |
$$ | . O O O O X O . X X . X O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X . , . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O X O O X . O X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X X O . . . O O . . X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . O . . . . . . . a . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . c . . . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


These are my expectations.
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Offline Redundant
 Post subject: Re: 92: Emerus (4k) vs. Redundant (1k)
Post #87 Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 4:48 pm 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 907
Location: Pittsburgh
Liked others: 45
Was liked: 100
Rank: lazy
KGS: redundant/silchas
Tygem: redundant
Wbaduk: redundant
DGS: redundant
OGS: redundant
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O O X . . O X O O X O . |
$$ | . O O O O X O . X X W X O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X . , . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O X O O X . O X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X X O . . . O O . . X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Let's see how he prevents this variation from happening ...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . . . O . O . . . . 4 . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O O X 3 2 O X O O X O . |
$$ | . O O O O X O . X X 1 X O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X . , 5 O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O X O O X . O X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X X O . . . O O . . X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline emerus
 Post subject: Re: 92: Emerus (4k) vs. Redundant (1k)
Post #88 Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 4:52 pm 
Lives in gote

Posts: 428
Liked others: 3
Was liked: 5
Rank: KGS 1dan
KGS: emerus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm1 Prisoner Count: B-2 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . . . O . O . . . . 3 . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O O X 2 1 . X O O X O . |
$$ | . O O O O X O . X X W X . X . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X . , . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O X O O X . O X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X X O . . . O O . . X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Triggers for obvious ataris plz...
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Offline Redundant
 Post subject: Re: 92: Emerus (4k) vs. Redundant (1k)
Post #89 Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 6:30 pm 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 907
Location: Pittsburgh
Liked others: 45
Was liked: 100
Rank: lazy
KGS: redundant/silchas
Tygem: redundant
Wbaduk: redundant
DGS: redundant
OGS: redundant
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm1 Prisoner Count: B-2 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . . . O . O . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O O X O X . X O O X O . |
$$ | . O O O O X O . X X O X . X . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X . , O O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O X O O X . O X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X X O . . . O O . . X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I don't like doing triggers. They precondition you to play a certain way.
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Offline emerus
 Post subject: Re: 92: Emerus (4k) vs. Redundant (1k)
Post #90 Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:56 pm 
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I can't believe that he's playing so many gote endgame sized moves. o.O


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm1 Prisoner Count: B-2 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . . . O . O . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O O X O X . X O O X O . |
$$ | . O O O O X O . X X O X . X . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X . , O O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O X O O X . O X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X X O . . . O O . . X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . B . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Marcus
 Post subject: Re: 92: Emerus (4k) vs. Redundant (1k)
Post #91 Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 6:51 am 
Gosei

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emerus wrote:
I can't believe that he's playing so many gote endgame sized moves. o.O


To emerus:
Have you tried counting the board at all? I'm curious to know what you think of the current board position. Given your statement above, where do you think White is going wrong with his latest handful of moves? What would you do different?


To observers:
While I'm not so keen on the invasion White played, I think the salvage wasn't all that bad, giving influence and threatening to cut off 14 or so more points up top. That's not small at all, if White swallows those stones.

Blacks comments seem to me to give the impression that he's not quite aware of how BIG White's upper left really is.

Don't get me wrong, I think that White has some work to do ... I just think Black is underestimating White's profit so far.
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Offline emerus
 Post subject: Re: 92: Emerus (4k) vs. Redundant (1k)
Post #92 Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 11:09 am 
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Marcus wrote:

To emerus:
Have you tried counting the board at all? I'm curious to know what you think of the current board position. Given your statement above, where do you think White is going wrong with his latest handful of moves? What would you do different?




Woops, idk how you quote things without seeing both hidden comments. My bad.... Red should be able to read that since I took an accidental glance.

No I don't really count. I'm not even sure the rules on captured stones yet. o.o

The board looks much better for black so I feel that I've retained my two stone advantage. White has gone terribly wrong with this invasion (although my p15 was a nasty shape mistake worth about 15 points), his entire sequence was a negative. Also his d14 move earlier was quite small for that stage in the game. If I'm a off in my judgment of a two stone game, it can't be by much and black is still ahead.

If I were to put numbers out by eyeballing I'd guess white has 40 points in the corner with a 18 point gote follow up at l19.
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Offline Marcus
 Post subject: Re: 92: Emerus (4k) vs. Redundant (1k)
Post #93 Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:13 pm 
Gosei

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emerus wrote:
Woops, idk how you quote things without seeing both hidden comments. My bad.... Red should be able to read that since I took an accidental glance.

Not to worry, I did not talk about future moves, just my own feel of the current position. :)
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Offline Redundant
 Post subject: Re: 92: Emerus (4k) vs. Redundant (1k)
Post #94 Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:45 pm 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 907
Location: Pittsburgh
Liked others: 45
Was liked: 100
Rank: lazy
KGS: redundant/silchas
Tygem: redundant
Wbaduk: redundant
DGS: redundant
OGS: redundant
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm1 Prisoner Count: B-2 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . . . O . O . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O O X O X . X O O X O . |
$$ | . O O O O X O . X X O X . X . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X . , O O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O X O O X . O X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X X O . . . O O . . X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . W . . . . . . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

My group will be fine. I'm taking this point, because him playing in this corner would make a really nice formation.
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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: 92: Emerus (4k) vs. Redundant (1k)
Post #95 Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 5:28 pm 
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Marcus wrote:
To observers:
While I'm not so keen on the invasion White played, I think the salvage wasn't all that bad, giving influence and threatening to cut off 14 or so more points up top. That's not small at all, if White swallows those stones.

Blacks comments seem to me to give the impression that he's not quite aware of how BIG White's upper left really is.

Don't get me wrong, I think that White has some work to do ... I just think Black is underestimating White's profit so far.


I think he's underestimating White's profit too, but I also think the top right was a White disaster. None of that thickness / influence he's got is that useful, and there's still huge local aji left around the M14 cut. White's given Black a big corner, and done nothing to prevent the framework on the right. What's more, his latest invasion can be treated as gote:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-2 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . . . O . O . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O O X O X . X O O X O . |
$$ | . O O O O X O . X X O X . X . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X . , O O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O X O O X . O X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X X O . . . O O . . X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 X 3 . . . . , . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . W 2 . . . . . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This looks hard for White to me.

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Offline emerus
 Post subject: Re: 92: Emerus (4k) vs. Redundant (1k)
Post #96 Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 1:08 pm 
Lives in gote

Posts: 428
Liked others: 3
Was liked: 5
Rank: KGS 1dan
KGS: emerus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm1 Prisoner Count: B-2 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . . . O . O . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O O X O X . X O O X O . |
$$ | . O O O O X O . X X O X . X . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X . , O O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O X O O X . O X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X X O . . . O O . . X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . B X . . . . . , . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm1 Prisoner Count: B-2 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . . . O . O . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O O X O X . X O O X O . |
$$ | . O O O O X O . X X O X . X . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X . , O O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O X O O X . O X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X X O . . . O O . . X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 X . . . . . , . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . O 2 . 3 . . . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


After this, I'm trying to decide the best way to extend from both sides on the right. It's a bit of an awkward distance so I will have to decide which side I will allow white to invade and how I can maybe create two weak groups with p4 if he does try an immediate invasion. Will post thoughts later.
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Offline Redundant
 Post subject: Re: 92: Emerus (4k) vs. Redundant (1k)
Post #97 Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 1:43 pm 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 907
Location: Pittsburgh
Liked others: 45
Was liked: 100
Rank: lazy
KGS: redundant/silchas
Tygem: redundant
Wbaduk: redundant
DGS: redundant
OGS: redundant
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm1 Prisoner Count: B-2 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . . . O . O . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O O X O X . X O O X O . |
$$ | . O O O O X O . X X O X . X . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X . , O O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O X O O X . O X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X X O . . . O O . . X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . , . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . O W . . . . . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


You're free to offer a trigger here.
I really hope he plays out the usual joseki, then I can reduce his left greatly. If he takes sente here, I'll locally be better, but globally not as great (but not bad).
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Offline emerus
 Post subject: Re: 92: Emerus (4k) vs. Redundant (1k)
Post #98 Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 3:32 pm 
Lives in gote

Posts: 428
Liked others: 3
Was liked: 5
Rank: KGS 1dan
KGS: emerus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm1 Prisoner Count: B-2 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . . . O . O . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O O X O X . X O O X O . |
$$ | . O O O O X O . X X O X . X . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X . , O O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O X O O X . O X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X X O . . . O O . . X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . B X . . . . . , . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . O O . 1 . . . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Redundant
 Post subject: Re: 92: Emerus (4k) vs. Redundant (1k)
Post #99 Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 3:39 pm 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 907
Location: Pittsburgh
Liked others: 45
Was liked: 100
Rank: lazy
KGS: redundant/silchas
Tygem: redundant
Wbaduk: redundant
DGS: redundant
OGS: redundant
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm1 Prisoner Count: B-2 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . . . O . O . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O O X O X . X O O X O . |
$$ | . O O O O X O . X X O X . X . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X . , O O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O X O O X . O X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X X O . . . O O . . X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . , . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . O O . X . . . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

He's taking sente ... I wonder what he'll do with his sente.
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Offline yoyoma
 Post subject: Re: 92: Emerus (4k) vs. Redundant (1k)
Post #100 Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 3:50 pm 
Lives in gote

Posts: 320
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
Liked others: 16
Was liked: 75
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm1 Prisoner Count: B-2 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . . . O . O . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O O X O X . X O O X O . |
$$ | . O O O O X O . X X O X . X . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X . , O O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O X O O X . O X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X X O . . . O O . . X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . b . . . . . . a . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I would rather close the corner with for example b, instead of jumping to center with a. I choose b because it makes it very hard for white to do anything at all on the left side now. Also since the wall up there is so solid there is no need to make a small knights move, so this one protects the corner more.

As for the right side, it seems hard for any one move by black or white to do much. Black can't really close the entire side in one move, especially with white influence nearby. Extending from the 3 stones in the corner could be ok if you consider it to have enough of a power swing compared to white moving the group next to it first. Overall I think the lower left is bigger for now.

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