I don't see any results that are really bad for me after I tenuki and pushing up at 16 is an important move. He can't keep me low and I can aim at reducing or invading the top much more effectively now. It helps to reduce some of black's influence and possibly allow me to build a framework on the left depending on how black plays in the lower left.
Like I said earlier I don't expect black to respond to this move because I don't see a good response at this time so it's probably best for black to see how the game develops before responding.
I like J16 or K16 for black on this board. Makes that top left group back into an asset, rather than liability. White growing a modest but strong moyo on the left isn't really a problem, I think, and that'd reinforce f3's feeling of being a limiting move (though, making white low on the left as in percep's diagram 3 also seems nice, but gote). Hm. E13 also looks kinda tesuji, eh ?
(He'll have to answer something submissively 'cause of shortage of liberties with black's push. I might be missing something, this is not a joseki I'm strong with.) Huh, if 2, E12 looks almost sente for black. I always thought this joseki result was barely more than a weak group for black, but on inspection I think he might have something here. White tenuki does not look great either, again because of b. Maybe he has his own shortage of liberties tesuji against D15, but I think black can get a thick result and possibly sente here.
Seems like I really need to investigate this joseki.
Edit: On further reflection, it's more complicated than I thought. "Simple avalanche variation" my left foot.
Heh, I am finding this game/comments interesting/educational, thanks guys.
You're welcome. If there's anything you like or don't like or have questions about in my posts just let me know.
Although I've got to say I didn't remember how nerve racking it is when you start getting hidden comments from observers. It makes me wonder if my thinking is messed up or if I'm missing something. This isn't that important but I don't want my opponent to see it until after the game, mindset is important (both your own and your opponent's).
I don't think that I can ignore this push, if I do my influence that I built up becomes less effective. [sgf-full](;GMFFCA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST RU[Japanese]SZKM[6.50] PW[Perception]PB[mw42] ;B[pd] ;W[dc] ;B[qo] ;W[cq] ;B[de] ;W[ce] ;B[dd] ;W[cd] ;B[ec] ;W[eb] ;B[fc] ;W[cb] ;B[df] ;W[cg] ;B[fq] ;W[dg] ;B[eg] ;W[eh] ;B[fh] (;W[fi] ;B[fg] ;W[di]LB[bf:B][cf:A][bg:C][bh:D][dh:E]C[If he plays like this, he has to fix otherwise black A, white B, C, D then black E will be double atari.]) (;W[ei] (;B[fg]LB[bf:B][ci:A]C[If he plays this way, I should still fix. He gets sente, but there is some aji left with A and B, so I am not unhappy.] ;W[do] ;B[iq]C[So his left side gets a little larger, but I'm not too concerned with it.] (;W ;B[ck] ;W[ek] ;B[ci] ;W[dl] ;B[bf] ;W[cf] ;B[bg] ;W[ch] ;B[bh]C[Perhaps something like this is possible (I'm not saying this is the only/best sequence... just a sequence).]) (;W[pq] ;B[op] ;W[oq] ;B[np] ;W[mq] ;B[mp] ;W[lq] ;B[qj]C[Then this reverts back to my original plan. We shall see.])) (;B[ff]LB[gg:A]C[Just to mention, I think the solid connect is better than this hanging connection because the peep at A looks like it may be useful.])))[/sgf-full]
Nothing to say. I should have just posted this double hane in one diagram and let him respond with his next move! I didn't really consider what to do if he cuts immediately. I think it's bad, but I'm not sure. I'll think about it if he does it.
I was expecting black to push at least once before connecting. I can turn later at f11. I'm not entirely sure what I want to play right now so I'm just going to show a few ideas, I probably won't move until tomorrow.
First of all what are the 3 stones actually doing right now? They were supposed to keep white low and give black influence. White's position isn't so low anymore and the stones are the ones giving black most of his influence on the top. Those 3 stones are working inefficiently now. That's why I thought black would ignore d13, it may have been better to see if it's worth defending that area first.
a is looking to turn the left side into white territory or attack black's approach stone if black ignores a white play at a.
Invading the top around b looks good. Black has put a lot of effort into keeping his influence there from being diminished. Since it's wide open and it has an open skirt invasion is still easy.
An approach to the bottom left intends to loosely pressure black's approach stone in the bottom left.
It may turn out that I can play two or even all 3 of these moves. Black doesn't seem to mind losing sente based on the way he's been playing so far. Black will want to invade/reduce on the left side and reinforce the area at the top so keeping him from doing those things will take priority over approaching the bottom right corner.
I'm going to look into this more and make my move in a day or two. I'll post variations and some more analysis when I make my move.
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Rank: Korean 1d
I just finished cleaning off the collateral blood spatter from lurking too close to the Magicwand vs. Topazg melee, and while I was waiting for my clothes to drip dry so I can again bask in the light of day I thought I would weigh into this game!
Sorry but this is for observers only! To the players though... fight well!
This move in the game was generating a few comments.
While I think that after white extends to 'a' the result is perhaps slightly favorable, especially as black gives up sente when he defends his weakpoint at 'c', I am not sure if this move itself is the root of the problem. Perhaps it is earlier.
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Universal go server handle: mw42
Here are some thoughts I had about the position on the left. [sgf-full](;GMFFCA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]STRU[Japanese]SZKM[6.50]PW[Perception]PB[mw42];B[pd];W[dc];B[qo];W[cq];B[de];W[ce];B[dd];W[cd];B[ec];W[eb] ;B[fc];W[cb];B[df];W[cg];B[fq];W[dg];B[eg];W[eh];B[fh];W[ei] ;B[fg]LB[bf:A][ci:B]C[This position seems interesting because of the aji at A and B. Just to check out a few variations.] (;W[ci]C[Black is immediately happy if white takes gote to fix it.]) (;W[dn]C[Let's assume white plays the standard 3-3 joseki then tenukis.];B[iq];W ;B[ci]C[Black plays at B directly.] (;W[dj];B[ck];W[cj];B[bj] (;W[bi];B[bh];W[bk];B[ai];W[bl] (;B[bg];W[cf] ;B[ch]C[Simple life, but can black do better?]) (;B[cf];W[bg];B[bf];W[ag];B[af];W[dh] ;B[bc]C[If white chooses to play like this, I think he loses the corner.])) (;W[bk];B[bh];W[aj];B[bi];W[bl];B[cf];W[bg];B[bf] (;W[ag];B[af];W[dh] ;B[bc]C[Cutting the other way leaves a similar result with white choosing between saving four stones or fighting for the corner.]) (;W[be] ;B[ag]C[Perhaps this is white's best response. I think the result is okay for black, but I probably wouldn't play A13 immediately to take sente.]))) (;W[ck];B[dj];W[fk];B[ej];W[fj];B[cf] (;W[bf] ;B[dh]TR[cg][dg]SQ[eh][ei]C[White will lose a pair of stones.]) (;W[dh];B[bg];W[bh];B[be];W[ag];B[bf];W[fi] ;B[bc]C[This would also lead to a fight for the corner.])) (;W[cj]C[Here black would just tenuki and look for an opportunity to use the aji later.])))[/sgf-full]
Something like that anyway. I think black would tenuki instead of responding directly to 8 because I can't see any local response that's really any good and to play at 8 instead of 7 allowing white to cut wouldn't be any good either.
With the top bottom and right sides all being so wide open still I'd feel okay with this since I would have around 30 solid points including komi.
Would this really have been even? It jsut feels like it gives up WAY too much strength on the right side. Having fallen for exactly this in my game against CSamurai, I'm kind of wary of letting an opponent build framework/influence on so large a scale.
_________________ Someday I want to be strong enough to earn KGS[-].
I can't say if it would really be even but I wouldn't feel behind. Black has no solid points only influence, his shimari in the lower right in my diagram would be the closest he is to actually making points up to that point. I would just have to keep my opponent from making too much and try to gain some points in the process which I don't think would be too difficult with how open the 3 sides of the board I haven't played on yet are.
Also the only group on the board in that diagram that could be put under pressure from an attack would be the black group in the top left.
I'm not too good at playing against large moyos but I prefer taking solid territory so it's something I'm working on. I've also seen plenty of pro games where a moyo spanning a large section of the board is almost entirely erased. Because of that I may underestimate their value.
I'm not strong enough at this point to give a good answer. Re-reading what I wrote I realize it's a bit disjointed and maybe not very helpful but I guess the first sentence is really the best answer I can give (I can't say if it would really be even but I wouldn't feel behind).
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