149. Uberdude vs Magicwand

Uberdude · **#61**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O O X . O , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O X X . 9 . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Magicwand · **#62**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O 0 . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O O X . O , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O X X . X . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

daniel_the_smith · **#63**

ez4u · **#64**

daniel_the_smith wrote:

Obs:

daniel_the_smith · **#65**

ez4u & obs,

emeraldemon · **#66**

Uberdude · **#67**

So now it's big decision time. Do I play on the left, or on the bottom side? The former means I get a group on both sides of white's lower left corner, but then white will also get a group on the lower side, splitting the board up, a mutual destruction style. If I play on the bottom side white will probably play on the left and I will build a nice bottom side (works nicely with q3), and white a nice left side (works nicely with d16), mutual creation. I think both options are probably fine and it is more a matter of style than correctness which one to play. My inclination in this position is to build rather than destroy (if I was white then destruction would appeal more as it makes komi relatively bigger), but let's look at some possible continuations.

Below black builds the lower side, and white the left. Instead of shimari at q5 I could also consider the larger scale but looser low/high Chinese shape at a/b. c also remains as a big influence and boundary of 2 moyos point. If black can push and white extends then black will be happy to make that sente exchange, but maybe white ignores or hanes, I will have to read and think about timings more for that move. White 26 is thick but maybe he won't go there yet but approach the lower right. Black then hopes to get sente to play at c8 and the forcing moves there help black build a group on the left side.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 Building $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b a . . | $$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 4 X . . 2 c . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O X . 3 . . . . . . 7 . . . | $$ | . . . O O O X . O , 5 . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O X X . X . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Even though :b23:

above seems to make a nice shape, black still has some shape weakness there at j3 as after j3 if white plays h2 black can't block at g2 or else white gets a huge ko or cuts at h5. Of course maybe black can allow the cut and still try to kill everything so I'll read a bit of that but it feels likely white can get something. If black answers j3 at h2 it is solid but really quite painfully submissive, similarly answering h2 hane safely at g3 to avoid the ko/cut.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 Shape weakness, a and b miai $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O X a 3 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O O X 8 O , 5 . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O X X b X 4 . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . 7 6 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

But if white plays j3 after the trade in the first diagram, black can safely block to the right side with 27 (l3 would be most solid, but m3 also seems to kill and is bigger) as although answering h2 at g3 is painful the position is sufficiently settled that black can be sure of killing white.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 Can play painful moves when killing $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 4 X . . 2 c . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O X . 3 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O O X . O , 5 . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O X X 9 X 6 . . 7 . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

So, how about playing on the left first? The move I first learnt in this position is the hanging connection at c8. Lee Changho and Cho Hun-hyeon played this opening many times in the 90s (but lower right a 4-4). In fact I remember when I first came across this shape my first thought was solid connection at c5, afterall that means if white cuts at c7 black can capture it. But c5 is rather heavy as white can attack the whole group at d9. d5 was just a kikashi stone to induce h3, black shouldn't hang on to it. Indeed if after the c8 connection white plays c5 to capture the stone (and make eyes, the hanging connection does have a latent threat against the white corner) black is not sad at all: he plays atari at b5 (which helps black's eyeshape) and could then defend at b7 or tenuki (and fight a ko if white cuts). Seeing as black played on the left, it is natural for white to play on the bottom side and attack the black group there. White could play 22 at h6 which is a nice thick extension, but black answers by sliding to k2 and is low but safe and in good shape. Black has to come out with the empty triangle and white keeps up the attack at k5 and develops his group. 27 is again a rather painful shape to run. White might then play something like 8 to extend and strengthen his group. If you remember a while ago I mentioned the difference a 3-4 makes in this corner to white settling on the side. This is the sort of position I meant. If black has a 4-4 in the lower right then a white move like o3 combines an extension with the standard corner approach. However, here white's n4 is an approach to the 3-4 stone from the wrong side. When I say wrong it doesn't mean it is a bad move, but that, just locally considering the 3-4 stone, white should approach from the r5 side to stop black making a shimari. To approach from the wrong side like this entails a local loss of territory. You do see that sort of outside approach move in the Chinese opening, that's because the Chinese r9 stone cramps an approach, but here the side is open. So black can be happy to answer with the shimari. And white's base still isn't secure yet, he might want to play o3 soon.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 Destroying $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . 6 . 7 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . O 5 . 4 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O X 3 . . . . . . . 9 . . . | $$ | . . . O O O X . O , . . 8 . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O X X . X 2 . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Another choice for white is to make the checking extension at c10 against black's hanging connection to attack black (with or without the j3-h5 exchange first). This is a powerful move combined with the peep at b7.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 More aggressive from white $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 4 5 9 . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 6 7 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O X 3 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O O X . O , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O X X . X 2 . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Black develops his group but is rather squashed. Notice how black uses the f7 peep to move out, and thus it would be a bad idea to exchange h6 for g7 if black then plans to play c8. Possibly because of the uncomfortableness of black's position I have seen c8 played more lightly at c9, and in that game black did make the h6-g7 exchange first.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm30 More aggressive from white contd. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . 1 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . 6 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X 5 4 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O 9 O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O X X 0 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O O X . O , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O X X . X O . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I could go on drawing diagrams until the cows come home, but anyway I've decided that while these variations are interesting and fun, I'm going to play more simply and build the bottom side.

illluck · **#68**

This is so incredibly weird - I could have sworn I posted in the correct thread XD

I'll fix this when the time-outs stop.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 illluck vs. Celebrir $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . | $$ | . X O , . . . . . , . . O O X , . . . | $$ | . O 3 . . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Had some issues with posting this reply, but apparently a reboot made it work.

Perhaps something as below? The normal sequence is 29 at a, but that's ridiculous in this case.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 illluck vs. Celebrir $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 4 6 . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . | $$ | 8 X O 5 . . . . . , . . O O X , . . . | $$ | . O 3 . . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . 7 9 . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Celebrir · **#69**

@illuck:

SpongeBob · **#70**

Uberdude wrote:

@Uberdude and observers:

Uberdude · **#71**

@Spongebob and obs

Celebrir · **#72**

@Uberdude and obs.

Uberdude · **#73**

@ Celelrir & obs

Uberdude · **#74**

Timeouts permitting, I will add more to my post #67 and then move...

Uberdude · **#75**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O O X . O , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O X X . X . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Magicwand · **#76**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O O X . O , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O X X . X . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Uberdude · **#77**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O X . 3 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O O X . O , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O X X . X . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Magicwand · **#78**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 4 X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O O X . O , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O X X . X . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Uberdude · **#79**

Ok, all going to plan, now it's another big decision time.

But first, something about white's last move (hmmm, I am commenting (and reading) for the both of us!). I thought maybe Magicwand would try to capture me on a larger scale with c9 and e9, but this is an overplay as the aji is really bad, for example I have the sneaky ko shown below for later. Cut at c7 and then extension to c8 should white wish to spend another move is correct.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm24 Greedy and bad aji: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . 4 1 . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 5 6 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 8 . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O O X . O , 2 . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O X X . X . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

My choices. First is l4 to further nullify his j4 stone and develop the lower side. As I wrote before, his extension to j3 is rather annoying for shape and l4 lets me kill it instead of having to answer painfully. k4 would do the same thing and is more solid, but l4 seems plenty solid enough and is bigger and makes it harder for white to get a group in the gap between it and the lower right corner. In fact even l4 has a whiff of overconcentration, but it is the shape point. Next white might play honte at c8 which gives me sente to further build the lower-right moyo. Or he could come in somewhere like q5, I attack and likely end with something nice and sente for c8, or end with something really nice and gote.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 Solid building $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O O X . O , 5 . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O X X . X . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

However, if we each build our moyos, then h7 becomes a key boundary point and if the following happens I might feel a bit sad to get pushed here. It makes l4 seem rather overconcentrated, but even so j4 still has some aji which makes white's k7 cut a bit more lively. Maybe j9 could even be atari at k9 even though it's bad style to push even more. We might even up pushing all the way across to q16 and we each get half the board!

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm25 Boundary point $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 2 . . . . . 6 7 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . O 4 5 8 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . O X 9 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O X . X . . . . . . 3 . . . | $$ | . . . O O O X . O , 1 . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O X X . X . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

So I might push at h7 now. If white extends I think that's a good exchange for me and then I can live at c8 (which takes away what white's extension was building in a nice rhythm). Notice the good timing of 31 and then 33: if white captures after 31 I sneak into the corner with an atari at b6. Instead of c8 I could maybe l4 but the h7 push makes l4 feel a little unnecessary.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm25 Push, extend, c8 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 5 3 6 . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 7 4 O X 0 . O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 8 X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O O X . O , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O X X . X . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If white ignores my push, say to play c8, then I hane at g8 and get power in the centre which is fine. However, I worry about white answering with hane. If I hane back white's double hane is powerful and makes me sad.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 Double hane $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . 6 7 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . O 5 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O O X . O , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O X X . X . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

So I could cut. If white extends to the right I play the c8 atari and this time use the solid connection at d8 rather than b8 block for my sente there as strong shape for the centre fighting is now more important that the territory on the left side. I'm fine with this.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm25 Push, hane, cut, extend right, fight! $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 5 7 . . 3 2 4 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 6 O X . . O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 8 X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O O X . O , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O X X . X . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

White could also extend the other way. now g9 is not so good as it's pushing form behind with few liberties. I could just extend down the side as white can't capture my cutting stone yet. White extending this way does do less damage to my right side potential so that's a plus which sort of balances out the difficulty of g8.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm25 Push, hane, cut, extend up, hmmmm $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 5 7 . . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 6 O X . . O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 8 X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O O X . O , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O X X . X . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

My 3rd choice is c8 immediately. But that's going against my whole plan of building the lower side so I dismiss that without much more thought. So it's L4 or h7, I think I'll sleep on it.

Magicwand · **#80**

my opponent's thinking time...i have no idea what he is thinking. i can never spend more than 5 second on a obvious move. even if it is not obvious i will play what seems correct and that usually works.

i have no idea what is correct joseki here.
i only play this because i remember that shape from 15 or 20 years ago.
and my move is only move that makes any sense.

what i mean by abvious: below trade is a no lose trade that should not wait IMO.
i have a feeling he will play that move 3 days later and wait another 5 days for next move :bow:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 6 4 X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O O X . O , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O X X . X . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

he should not think about what to play now.
he should exchange above and think about next move.

i am guessing 6 days later i will see below shape

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 5 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 6 4 X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O O X . O , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O X X . X . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

149. Uberdude vs Magicwand

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