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Offline EdLee
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Post #21 Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:31 pm 
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This week it's my turn to recover from jet lag. Will post when my brain clears up. :)
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Offline Celebrir
 Post subject: Re: 166. EdLee vs. Celebrir
Post #22 Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:24 am 
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Take your time :) Jetlag can be really bad, I know that...
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Offline EdLee
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Post #23 Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:46 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm23
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
I'm not sure of the best direction, and I don't think getting over my jetlag will help tremendously here. :oops:
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Offline Celebrir
 Post subject: Re: 166. EdLee vs. Celebrir
Post #24 Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:19 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21 Prisoners: W:0 B:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . 4 O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I expect something like this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm1 Diagram 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O 4 O O 8 . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . 3 2 X 1 6 . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X 5 . 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 9 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The nice thing in this variation would be that there is still some aji from the 'a' direction. If I block from the other direction his position would look better in my opinion:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Dia.2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 3 5 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . W 6 2 O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X 1 . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


:w7: Already would hurt me a little bit becaus it is pushing from behind. Besides :wc: looks bad in front of his strength and his stones doesn't look that overconcentrated at all because he easily can close me in. Therefore I prefer teh variation of Dia. 1
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Offline EdLee
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Post #25 Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:29 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm25
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 O . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . Q . O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . 1 . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
Cash. Because of :wc: and :wt:, :b1: looks less interesting, but I could be wrong.
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Offline Celebrir
 Post subject: Re: 166. EdLee vs. Celebrir
Post #26 Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:22 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21 Prisoners: W:0 B:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I guess this is the only move. At least I don't know any other moves and since this is closed book I can't lookup others. If anyone knows other variations which would be better here I'm very interested.
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Offline EdLee
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Post #27 Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:52 am 
Oza
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm27
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . 1 , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Celebrir
 Post subject: Re: 166. EdLee vs. Celebrir
Post #28 Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:40 pm 
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Sorry that I'm taking so much time, but I have to do a lot at my university :(

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21 Prisoners: W:0 B:0
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Dia. 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . a O . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . b . . . . . . W . O O . . |
$$ | . . X , . 2 . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I first feared this :b2: but after some thinking I decided I can answer this around :w3: He might be able to close me in the corner but this doesn't seem so good because :wc: is low.
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Offline EdLee
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Post #29 Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:41 am 
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No problem, Celebrir. :)


First feeling. (a) and (b) miai? Will think about it. :)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . a . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X b . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline EdLee
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Post #30 Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:12 pm 
Oza
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm29
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Celebrir
 Post subject: Re: 166. EdLee vs. Celebrir
Post #31 Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:31 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21 Prisoners: W:0 B:0
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . 0 . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


Let's review another joseki to compare this result:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm1 Dia. 3
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 O . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . 5 , . 2 a . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


From some high dans I heared this is not longer considered equal because it is a little bit to slow for W. I think my position is better because I was able to play at 'a' instead of :w2: . Normally you get sente in this joseki but I tennukied once so it is only fair that he gets sente. Even if he tries to continue with 'b' I think his position at the left is not big enough to be worried about. Therefore I'm quite happy with this result.
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Offline EdLee
 Post subject:
Post #32 Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 4:32 pm 
Oza
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Posts: 3263
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm31
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
Not sure about this result. :oops:
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Offline Celebrir
 Post subject: Re: 166. EdLee vs. Celebrir
Post #33 Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:54 pm 
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I'm thinking about this quite a lot. I won't connect because if he would cut it looks overconcentrated:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Dia. 4
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . O O 5 . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . . , . . . . . X 2 3 . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 6 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . c . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . O . . b . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

Points I'm thinking about are :w1:, 'a' 'b' and 'c'
I'm currently tending to play 'a' because that looks like a perfect shape if B plays there. But playing :w1: should be sente. But how good is this sente and how much is it ajikeshi ?

One could argue that the B group becomes unstable if I would connect, but it is safe with more points like this in my opinion:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Dia. 5
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . . , . . . . . X 1 . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . 4 3 O 6 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

Even this cut doesn't look great to me.
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Offline Celebrir
 Post subject: Re: 166. EdLee vs. Celebrir
Post #34 Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:00 am 
Lives with ko
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Universal go server handle: Celebrir
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm31 Prisoners: W:0 B:0
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


Some thoughts about the moves I mentioned in Dia. 4:

:w1: :
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Dia. 6
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . 0 . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . 7 . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . W . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

This doesn't look that bad but I think it would be better if :wc: woulb already be on the 4th line.

a:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Dia. 7
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . O O 5 . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . . , . . . . . X 2 3 . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 6 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

This prevents his ideal shape at the right and I think he has to secure his corner after this move because I can start a really serious attack if I get :w1: and :b2: . This sequence would give me sente and besides :w1: looks like a good and flexible reduction. I think I even could play elsewhere now because it seems difficult to attack :w1: in a effective way. However, I would have to be careful with creating another weak group while this is still unsettled.

b:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Dia. 8
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . O . . 1 . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

I'm not sure whether the exchange :w1: :b2: is good but it would allow me to fight at the left. Maybe a or b would be good moves.

c:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Dia. 9
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . 3 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 5 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

There are far to much possible reactions to explain here but I think this is not so because :b2: helps black a lot. I think it is better to do another reduction here later.

I think :w1: and c are not best for the reasons given in the explanations and my feeling is that b is to slow. Therefore I'm going to play a and wait for his reactions to choose my next step.
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Offline EdLee
 Post subject:
Post #35 Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:23 am 
Oza
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W is treading lightly with :wc: -- 4th line, not 3rd,
perhaps partly because it's not easy to settle either way. One first feeling is :b1: --
between :bt: and :bc:, :wc: is a light reduction; but after :b1:, :wc: seems deeper:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Y X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . O . 1 . . B . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline EdLee
 Post subject:
Post #36 Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:50 am 
Oza
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Posts: 3263
Location: Santa Barbara, California
Liked others: 83
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm33
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . 1 , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
After some thought, :b1:, although not small, seems soft:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . O . 1 . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
Back to the board. After :wc:, it seems there's little development on the right side.
Big: the left, the top, and (a) is a big shared point at the bottom. So what to do about :wc: ?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . O . a . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
The next idea was the cap :b1:...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . W . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
If outside hane :b3:, then after :w6:, I start to get busy with the :bc: group (for example: push-and-cut (b), cut at (c), etc.),
even though I have things like :black:(d) (which may not be sente):
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . . , . . d . . B . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . B . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b B B . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . 3 2 . 6 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . c 1 5 W . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
If inside hane :b3:, this fight looks OK for B...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . 2 3 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 4 W . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
...However, if :w2:, :black:(e)- :white:(f) makes a broken shape for B, not good;
else if :b3: at (g), then it seems :bc: group will get busy:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . . , . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . B . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B B . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . f . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . g e 2 . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . W . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Celebrir
 Post subject: Re: 166. EdLee vs. Celebrir
Post #37 Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:28 am 
Lives with ko
User avatar

Posts: 280
Liked others: 5
Was liked: 10
Rank: German 1k
KGS: 1.Kyudan
Wbaduk: 3k
OGS: 5k
Universal go server handle: Celebrir
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm31 Prisoners: W:0 B:0
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


I have to admit that :b33: is a move I didn't expect but I can't say it is bad. I think :w34: is an important point for both in sente so I'll take it first. I'm already thinking about what I'll play afterwards but I'm still very unsure...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Dia. 10
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . b a . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . c . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

I think :b2: is the only move here. If he play something else he'll damage his top group to much I think. After this I'm thinking about a (Running into safety) b (Fighting for a better result than a) and c (Getting a base before going into the middle. But this would also give him some points)
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Offline EdLee
 Post subject:
Post #38 Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:40 am 
Oza
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Posts: 3263
Location: Santa Barbara, California
Liked others: 83
Was liked: 574
GD Posts: 312
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm35
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
Natural, only move?
Variation (right side rotated for space):
If :w34: at :w1: first, then it's more difficult for B to block at (a); B would pull back at (b)...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . a b . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 1 X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . O , . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
...but in the game, thanks to the :wc: :bc: exchange, if :w1: now, B can block with :b2::
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 1 X B . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . O W . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Celebrir
 Post subject: Re: 166. EdLee vs. Celebrir
Post #39 Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:37 pm 
Lives with ko
User avatar

Posts: 280
Liked others: 5
Was liked: 10
Rank: German 1k
KGS: 1.Kyudan
Wbaduk: 3k
OGS: 5k
Universal go server handle: Celebrir
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm31 Prisoners: W:0 B:0
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


I'm playing this because I doesn't want to fight with b in Dia. 10. I was thinking long about c in Dia. 10 but it seems like B gets to much in the corner while W gets only a little bit better base.
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Offline EdLee
 Post subject:
Post #40 Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:50 pm 
Oza
User avatar

Posts: 3263
Location: Santa Barbara, California
Liked others: 83
Was liked: 574
GD Posts: 312
First feeling:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 W . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
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Board index » L19²GO (Malkovich) » 1-on-1 Malkovich games

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