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Offline hyperpape
 Post subject: Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck
Post #141 Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 11:47 am 
Tengen

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Rank: AGA 3k
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OGS: Hyperpape 4k
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm80
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . X O O O O O X O O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X X X X X O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X . X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . 2 . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . X . . O . . O X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . X X . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Unhidden: 1) I think I can do this, though it gets complicated if Black tries to resist. 2) I think if I do this, there's more interesting aji in the center. 3) I think I need that.

_________________
Occupy Babel!


Last edited by hyperpape on Sun Nov 11, 2012 6:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline illluck
 Post subject: Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck
Post #142 Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 6:31 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm80
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . X O O O O O X O O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X X X X X O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . X . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . X . . O . . O X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . X X . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Mmm, I don't see any working sequences for white yet, but my position is looking more and more flimsy by the move XD There are too many scary/annoying sequences starting from the cut for me to list. My feeling is that I should at least get compensation at bottom if white cuts, but the centre is definitely more important.
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Offline The Intrepid
 Post subject: Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck
Post #143 Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 7:37 pm 
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illluck wrote:
Mmm, I don't see any working sequences for white yet, but my position is looking more and more flimsy by the move XD
Just like illluck, I am starting to be concerned about Black's position. Perhaps White can now be clever and attach at H12:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . X O O O O O X O O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X X X X X O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . X . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . X . . O . . O X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . X X . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The threats are the following:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm2 The ladder is in White's favor
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . X O O O O O X O O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X X X X X O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O 1 . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X W . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 6 5 O X . X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . . 4 3 X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . X 2 X O O O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . X . . O . . O X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . X X . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm2 Another favorable ladder for White
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . X O O O O O X O O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X X X X X O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O 2 3 . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 8 7 5 X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O 6 4 . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . . 1 . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . X . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . X . . O . . O X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . X X . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm2 White successfully invades the center
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . X O O O O O X O O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X X X X X O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O 2 . 4 . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . 3 . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . . 1 . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . X . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . X . . O . . O X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . X X . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Based on these variations, perhaps Black has already made a serious mistake. However, perhaps there is a better way for Black to respond to the attachment at H12. What do you think?

_________________
Ontological imperative holds that my losses occurred only in imagination.
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Offline jts
 Post subject: Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck
Post #144 Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 8:49 pm 
Oza
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Intrepid, I think your variations leave white a bit short of points if b ignores. Overall, it looks like (assuming no points for either on left or in center) a dead heat and b has sente.
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Offline The Intrepid
 Post subject: Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck
Post #145 Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 9:29 pm 
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That might be true. Perhaps Black can play like this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . X O O O O O X O O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X X X X X O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O 3 . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . 4 . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . O X . X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . X . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . X . . O . . O X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . X X . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Even so, if White brought this situation to a near equality with regard to points, then Black must have played sub-optimally somewhere. Black looked to have had a commanding lead some 10-20 moves ago.

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Offline hyperpape
 Post subject: Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck
Post #146 Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:48 am 
Tengen

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OGS: Hyperpape 4k
Unhidden: This will take some thought.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm84
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . X O O O O O X O O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X X X X X O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . 8 9 . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X 7 . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . O 2 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . 3 5 X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X 4 X 6 . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . X a X O O O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . X . . O . . O X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . X X . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
:b91: is the move I overlooked. It's so obviously better than the hane for Black, now that I look at the position a second time.

Given that this line doesn't work for White, I will probably have to try and make something happen around the a point. There is interesting aji, but I probably just end up dying.

_________________
Occupy Babel!


Last edited by hyperpape on Sun Nov 11, 2012 6:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline illluck
 Post subject: Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck
Post #147 Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:34 pm 
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Poke?
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Offline hyperpape
 Post subject: Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck
Post #148 Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 6:48 am 
Tengen

Posts: 4380
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Rank: AGA 3k
GD Posts: 65
OGS: Hyperpape 4k
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm80
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . X O O O O O X O O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X X X X X O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 5 . . 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . X . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . X . . O . . O X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . X X . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Trigger:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . X O O O O O X O O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X X X X X O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . O 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 5 . . 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X 6 X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . X . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . X . . O . . O X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . X X . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Not trigger:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . X O O O O O X O O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X X X X X O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . 0 . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . 9 X . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . O 7 8 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 5 . . 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X 6 X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . X . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . X . . O . . O X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . X X . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
One way.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm80
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . X O O O O O X O O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X X X X X O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 O O . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 5 4 O X X X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . . 3 2 X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . 7 X 1 X O O O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . 8 O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . X . . O . 9 O X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . X X . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . X O O O O O X O O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X X X X X O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X X X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . . O X X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . 4 O X O X O O O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . 3 2 X X O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . X . 5 O 1 O O X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . X X . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
One way. Miai to capture or connect. Hardly saying this is the best. Perhaps there is some way go without burning all the forcing moves.

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Occupy Babel!


Last edited by hyperpape on Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline hyperpape
 Post subject: Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck
Post #149 Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 6:51 am 
Tengen

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OGS: Hyperpape 4k
I did what I'd been afraid of doing since I started this, and opened one of your hide tags while confused.

Before closing it, I didn't see any diagrams, but saw that you said you thought there was tons of aji for your position. I have unhidden two comments of mine that seem to be about equal in import.

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Offline illluck
 Post subject: Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck
Post #150 Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 6:21 pm 
Lives in sente

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OGS: illluck
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . X O O O O O X O O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X X X X X O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X 8 . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . X . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . X . . O . . O X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . X X . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Don't worry about it, my comments are admittedly quite short anyways :p That unhidden comment did confuse me, though - I thought it was a trigger :p
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Offline hyperpape
 Post subject: Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck
Post #151 Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:59 pm 
Tengen

Posts: 4380
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Liked others: 499
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Rank: AGA 3k
GD Posts: 65
OGS: Hyperpape 4k
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm88
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . X O O O O O X O O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X X X X X O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . X 1 X O O O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . X . . O . . O X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . X X . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I don't see a way around this.

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Offline illluck
 Post subject: Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck
Post #152 Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:22 pm 
Lives in sente

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Tygem: Trickprey
OGS: illluck
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm88
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . X O O O O O X O O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X X X X X O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . 2 X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . X 1 X O O O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . X . . O . . O X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . X X . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Hopefully I'm not missing something obvious, but the loose ladder doesn't work, and I don't see working nets/ladders either.
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Offline hyperpape
 Post subject: Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck
Post #153 Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:59 am 
Tengen

Posts: 4380
Location: North Carolina
Liked others: 499
Was liked: 733
Rank: AGA 3k
GD Posts: 65
OGS: Hyperpape 4k
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm88
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . X O O O O O X O O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X X X X X O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 O X X X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . . 3 X X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . X O X O O O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . X . . O . . O X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . X X . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Trigger if you play as above:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm88
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . X O O O O O X O O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X X X X X O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 O X X X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . . 3 X X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . 5 X O X O O O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . X . . O . . O X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . X X . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline illluck
 Post subject: Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck
Post #154 Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:15 pm 
Lives in sente

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Rank: OGS 2d
KGS: illluck
Tygem: Trickprey
OGS: illluck
Trigger accepted.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm88
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . X O O O O O X O O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X X X X X O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 6 X O X X X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . . O X X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . O X O X O O O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . X . . O . . O X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . X X . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Feels like white should have played atari once more before coming back to capture (though my instinct says that white shouldn't capture at all and instead play from the othr group.
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Offline The Intrepid
 Post subject: Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck
Post #155 Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:35 pm 
Lives in gote

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Looks like White should have first exchanged 3 for 4 before playing 5.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . X O O O O O X O O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X X X X X O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X b . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . a 4 O O . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 3 2 O X X X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . . 1 X X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . 5 X O X O O O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . X . . O . . O X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . X X . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
That way, "a" would not be sente for Black, so White could still hope to play the ladder breaker at "b" at some point.

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Offline hyperpape
 Post subject: Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck
Post #156 Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:48 pm 
Tengen

Posts: 4380
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Liked others: 499
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Rank: AGA 3k
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OGS: Hyperpape 4k
First thought: if I capture, Black can't atari.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm94 B97 takes the ko
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . X O O O O O X O O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X X X X X O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 3 X X O X X X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . 5 2 O X X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . O X O X O O O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . 1 O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . X . . O . . O X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . X X . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm94
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . X O O O O O X O O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X X X X X O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 2 X X O X X X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . . O X X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . O X O X O O O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . 1 O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . X . . O . . O X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . X X . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline hyperpape
 Post subject: Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck
Post #157 Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:43 am 
Tengen

Posts: 4380
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Liked others: 499
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Rank: AGA 3k
GD Posts: 65
OGS: Hyperpape 4k
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm94 W98 connects
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . X O O O O O X O O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X X X X X O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . 9 8 . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . O O . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 7 X X O X X X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . 1 O X X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . O X O X O O O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . 6 4 3 O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . X . . O . 2 O X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . X X . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If I connect, there is the atari and squeeze, but White gets pleasant shenanigans. I believe Black 101 leaves Black dead.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm94 W98 Connects
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . X O O O O O X O O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X X X X X O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , 9 . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . O O . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 7 X X O X X X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . 1 O X X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . O X O X O O O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . 6 4 3 O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . X . . O . 2 O X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . X X . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I believe this Black 101 leaves Black with a way out, but I've exhausted my tolerance for diagrams.

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Offline hyperpape
 Post subject: Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck
Post #158 Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:46 pm 
Tengen

Posts: 4380
Location: North Carolina
Liked others: 499
Was liked: 733
Rank: AGA 3k
GD Posts: 65
OGS: Hyperpape 4k
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm88
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . X O O O O O X O O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X X X X X O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O X X X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . . O X X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . O X O X O O O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . 7 O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . X . . O . . O X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . X X . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
There is crazy stuff, and I never managed to analyze it all, but I feel better doing this.

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Offline illluck
 Post subject: Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck
Post #159 Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:53 pm 
Lives in sente

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Will definitely have to think a bit more about this one, coming home tired due to work. I will respond before the end of this week.
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Offline hyperpape
 Post subject: Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck
Post #160 Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:55 pm 
Tengen

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GD Posts: 65
OGS: Hyperpape 4k
No worries.
It's not as if I was doing wonderfully before, but the situation is looking really grim. I think it's at least worth letting this fight get clearer, but I don't think there's a lot of hope for White.

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Board index » L19²GO (Malkovich) » 1-on-1 Malkovich games

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