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Offline bgrieco
 Post subject: Re: #216 Quietimes vs BGrieco
Post #21 Posted: Sun May 05, 2013 8:19 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 #216 Quietimes (KGS 16k)vs BGrieco (IGS 16k)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O 1 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline quietimes
 Post subject: Re: #216 Quietimes vs BGrieco
Post #22 Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 2:47 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 #216 Quietimes (KGS 16k)vs BGrieco (IGS 16k)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O 1 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So as expected. Plan on him extending. I peek. He solidifies (bad for me, I know) however this way I hope to make a base upper middle board.
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Offline bgrieco
 Post subject: Re: #216 Quietimes vs BGrieco
Post #23 Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 5:43 pm 
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Rank: IGS 16 kyu
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 #216 Quietimes (KGS 16k)vs BGrieco (IGS 16k)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O 1 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline quietimes
 Post subject: Re: #216 Quietimes vs BGrieco
Post #24 Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 7:06 pm 
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Universal go server handle: Quiettimes
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 #216 Quietimes (KGS 16k)vs BGrieco (IGS 16k)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . 5 . O 1 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


i feel like I should jump down to the middle bottom, that this corner can wait. Live and learn.
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Offline bgrieco
 Post subject: Re: #216 Quietimes vs BGrieco
Post #25 Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 7:50 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 #216 Quietimes (KGS 16k)vs BGrieco (IGS 16k)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . 5 . O 1 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Good move of him.
I was expecting O13 so I would play N16 instead.
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Offline EdLee
 Post subject:
Post #26 Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 12:10 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm11
$$ ------------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . 5 . O 1 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
bgrieco wrote:
Good move [ :b15:] of him.
( For beginners. ) No. :b15: is not good for B, and it helps W.
W can just connect with :w2:. Then W has the nice follow-up
of W(a) hane, B(b) hane, W(c) double-hane:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ------------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . 1 2 O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a b . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . c . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
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Offline bgrieco
 Post subject: Re: #216 Quietimes vs BGrieco
Post #27 Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 7:20 am 
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I haven't read edlee's post, but I know what it is about.
My last move was a mistake. I spent the whole night thinking about it.
I was tired and I panicked.
I should have pinced black.
Rats... :grumpy:
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Offline EdLee
 Post subject:
Post #28 Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 1:57 pm 
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bgrieco wrote:
My last move was a mistake. ...I should have pinced black.
( For beginners. ) No. Over-thinking. Unclear on the basics. Just connect.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . 1 2 O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
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Offline quietimes
 Post subject: Re: #216 Quietimes vs BGrieco
Post #29 Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 6:07 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 #216 Quietimes (KGS 16k)vs BGrieco (IGS 16k)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . 5 7 O 1 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Well not as planned. I will cut and likely run/tenuki? I am really feeling a need to lay a claim on the bottom middle star point. Just seems like the bigger move.
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Offline quietimes
 Post subject: Re: #216 Quietimes vs BGrieco
Post #30 Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 6:09 pm 
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Looking back 30 seconds later, I must admit I am really disappointed in my previous move. Disgusted more accurate.
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Offline bgrieco
 Post subject: Re: #216 Quietimes vs BGrieco
Post #31 Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 8:50 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 #216 Quietimes (KGS 16k)vs BGrieco (IGS 16k)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . 5 7 O 1 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Due to my previous mistake, I have to cope with my loss now.
I'll try making the group at O15 stronger so I may have more chance against his group at N16.
Trying a ladder against that group would be very dangerous.
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Offline EdLee
 Post subject:
Post #32 Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 10:37 pm 
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( For beginners. ) :w18: is a big local move, but wrong sequence --
W must first deal with the cut at (a):
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm11
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 a O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . 5 7 O 1 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |[/go]
If :b1:, the fight is difficult for White:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |[/go]
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Offline quietimes
 Post subject: Re: #216 Quietimes vs BGrieco
Post #33 Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 10:58 am 
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totally discouraged with this ugly position. At this point the 15 group is not a priority for me. Can't connect, not worth the moves. 13 group also stuck with a 3 liberty. As much as I feel like I'm dancing to gote I'm going to extend 13 to at least salvage some profit on east side. Will hit bottom middle at later date.
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Offline quietimes
 Post subject: Re: #216 Quietimes vs BGrieco
Post #34 Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 11:02 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 #216 Quietimes (KGS 16k)vs BGrieco (IGS 16k)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . 5 7 O 1 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 9 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


i realize I'm giving big great influence toward center however I want to walk away from this with a tangible asset (territory on the right side) vs potential benefit in the future.
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Offline bgrieco
 Post subject: Re: #216 Quietimes vs BGrieco
Post #35 Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 3:23 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 #216 Quietimes (KGS 16k)vs BGrieco (IGS 16k)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



@Quietimes,

When you post your next diagram :
change $$Bcm11 to $$Bcm21 and my last move (0) to an O.


Trying to make a wall here, will defend after his move and try a net to capture the black stones,
If it fails, I'll try making territory on the upper side.
I picked a fight. Truth is I'm not very good at fights... :grumpy:
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Offline jts
 Post subject: Re: #216 Quietimes vs BGrieco
Post #36 Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 3:52 pm 
Oza
User avatar

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Just some constructive comments.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 #216 Quietimes (KGS 16k)vs BGrieco (IGS 16k)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O 1 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


:b11: seems to create cutting points unnecessarily. Drawing back accomplishes the same thing, and B can cheerfully respond to the W hane with a counter-hane.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 #216 Quietimes (KGS 16k)vs BGrieco (IGS 16k)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Although I should say, this following fight looks fun for B to me. I look forward to criticism from more experienced players:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 #216 Quietimes (KGS 16k)vs BGrieco (IGS 16k)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O 3 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Back to the game. B's peep is not awful, but it may be premature. Later on, if the W group comes under attack, :b15: might prove to be the best peep... or it might be at a or b instead. The peep also gives up all the interesting follow-ups that would follow from after a Black play at c.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 #216 Quietimes (KGS 16k)vs BGrieco (IGS 16k)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . c . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . a . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . 5 . O 1 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White pondered a pincer, but that would be absurd. If B tries to save the peeping stone (a mistake), W gets severe moves against the corner. If B sensibly abandons the peeping stone, then W can make a big extension from a solid wall.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 #216 Quietimes (KGS 16k)vs BGrieco (IGS 16k)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . 7 . . 5 6 O 1 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 9 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 #216 Quietimes (KGS 16k)vs BGrieco (IGS 16k)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . 8 . . 5 6 O 1 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White's actual response to the peep was a mistake that shows good fighting spirit. This sort of move is a solid response to a peep that aims to make a weak W group connect in bad shape; W refuses to submit in the way B plans. However, in this case W is not weak and not under attack, so the obstinate response is unnecessary.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 #216 Quietimes (KGS 16k)vs BGrieco (IGS 16k)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 0 O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . 8 5 7 O 1 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 2 X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 43 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The above seems to be a playable line - a mistake, but not a disaster by any means.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 #216 Quietimes (KGS 16k)vs BGrieco (IGS 16k)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . 7 5 8 O 1 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 43 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This line (above) makes it look like W has exchanged :w6: for :b7:, which not ideal, but is even less of a worry.

However, now that B has his cut and W neither hane'd at a nor set up the ladder at b, W would have been in terrible straits if B had simply cut. W has no way to rescue the marked stones, and all of the black stones are tied together.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 #216 Quietimes (KGS 16k)vs BGrieco (IGS 16k)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 9 W . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . b 5 7 W 1 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 a . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline quietimes
 Post subject: Re: #216 Quietimes vs BGrieco
Post #37 Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 7:02 pm 
Dies with sente

Posts: 121
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KGS: 20
OGS: 28.1
Universal go server handle: Quiettimes
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 #216 Quietimes (KGS 16k)vs BGrieco (IGS 16k)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Really behind the eightball here. If I extend the group on the right probably throwing good money to bad. There are bigger moves and I am sure the bottom middle star point is the right move. If he runs into my east side I will separate the two territories. I have a feeling that he is going to be defensive on the star point and try to preserve his western moyo. Guessing he will play just to the left of my star point. Iron pillar up if he does and try to run north. If I can run some influence north, I may be able to reduce his influence and territory potential in the center and NE corner. This will leave my SE corner a little more secure and maybe flip the gote chip over to him. Doubtful


I would like to ask if not too late. I have been using a Go editor, simply to run my thoughts out on the board. I have not used any reference (book or database) nor any other input. Simply reading out thoughts. Will this be ok?
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Offline bgrieco
 Post subject: Re: #216 Quietimes vs BGrieco
Post #38 Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 7:48 pm 
Dies with sente

Posts: 100
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Rank: IGS 16 kyu
KGS: bgrieco
IGS: bgrieco
Online playing schedule: at night 21:00 - 00:00 UTC-3
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 #216 Quietimes (KGS 16k)vs BGrieco (IGS 16k)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . 2 . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Ok, no problems.
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Offline EdLee
 Post subject:
Post #39 Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 5:49 am 
Honinbo
User avatar

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( For beginners. ) The :w1: hane is so big. Interesting both sides don't have any feeling about (a).
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O a O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . 1 X X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Phoenix
 Post subject: Re:
Post #40 Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 8:20 am 
Lives with ko

Posts: 276
Liked others: 301
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To EdLee:
EdLee wrote:
( For beginners. ) The :w1: hane is so big. Interesting both sides don't have any feeling about (a).
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O a O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . 1 X X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


Watching beginners is a stressful affair, especially when they overthink. I'm glad you brought this up, because I've been screaming in my head "Play 'a', play 'a'! Game over!"

In a faster game, I doubt this kind of straightforward move would be missed. :mrgreen:
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Board index » L19²GO (Malkovich) » 1-on-1 Malkovich games

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