Back on track

[Bill Spight]

Ah silly me. Thank you Bill.

Amelia, I apologise for cluttering your thread, I really should have done this somewhere else.

$$B Black to Play
$$ ------------------
$$ | c 5 3 4 . . . . .
$$ | 1 2 b O X . . . .
$$ | a O O O X . . . .
$$ | O O X X X . . . .
$$ | . X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B Black to Play
$$ ------------------
$$ | c 5 3 4 . . . . .
$$ | 1 2 b O X . . . .
$$ | a O O O X . . . .
$$ | O O X X X . . . .
$$ | . X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]

Ok, so I'm not sure if this is a seki or not given normal tsumego rules. White can force a ko here once they have the outside liberties with a but if white leaves it, it's a seki as a by Black returns the position to the above after capture and recapture and b by Black gives White an eye. Filling with c by Black removes the ko and leaves a seki.

Is this considered a seki under normal conditions? i.e. where the defender has the option of ko in the sequence but not the attacker?

There is no tsumego convention for such positions, as far as I know. In a real game, the invader has an advantage in terms of making ko, because she has fewer stones at stake. So the usual result here is seki, because White will avoid making the ko, and Black cannot make a ko.

There is a flaw in this problem, from a practical point of view.

$$B Black to Play
$$ ------------------
$$ | . 5 3 4 6 . . . .
$$ | 1 2 . O X . a . .
$$ | . O O O X . . . .
$$ | O O X X X . . . .
$$ | . X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B Black to Play
$$ ------------------
$$ | . 5 3 4 6 . . . .
$$ | 1 2 . O X . a . .
$$ | . O O O X . . . .
$$ | O O X X X . . . .
$$ | . X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]

There really should be a Black stone at or around "a", or can push out into Black territory and take away a number of points. (If it is not Black territory, White may connect or threaten to do so.)

$$B Black to Play
$$ ------------------
$$ | . . 2 1 3 . . . . .
$$ | . 4 . O X . . . .
$$ | . O O O X . . . .
$$ | O O X X X . . . .
$$ | . X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B Black to Play
$$ ------------------
$$ | . . 2 1 3 . . . . .
$$ | . 4 . O X . . . .
$$ | . O O O X . . . .
$$ | O O X X X . . . .
$$ | . X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]

So in real life the hane-connect might be the best play.

[mitsun]

$$B
$$ ------------------
$$ | . 5 3 4 . . . . .
$$ | 1 2 . O X . . . .
$$ | . O O O X . . . .
$$ | O O X X X . . . .
$$ | . X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B
$$ ------------------
$$ | . 5 3 4 . . . . .
$$ | 1 2 . O X . . . .
$$ | . O O O X . . . .
$$ | O O X X X . . . .
$$ | . X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]

Is this considered a seki under normal conditions?

You got it. This is considered seki. It would be a very rare game where W would want to start a ko, risking a 20 point loss in order to gain 6 points from two moves. And once B fills the outside liberties, even that possibility is gone.

[Amelia]

Ah silly me. Thank you Bill.

Amelia, I apologise for cluttering your thread, I really should have done this somewhere else.

Please don't. I really like your interesting problems

I'm still baffled by the fact that in the first problem, white could make a seki despite black having two eyes. Two eyes in my book was a big sign "STOP READING HERE". It shouldn't be

And if I haven't posted anything about the second, that's because I haven't worked it out yet.

[Boidhre]

Please don't. I really like your interesting problems

I'm still baffled by the fact that in the first problem, white could make a seki despite black having two eyes. Two eyes in my book was a big sign "STOP READING HERE". It shouldn't be

And if I haven't posted anything about the second, that's because I haven't worked it out yet.

Most of progression in go from ddk to sdk is learning about all the things we thought were true that really, really aren't. It probably applies when you're stronger too to a lesser extent, or on more minor issues.

The second problem is a bit cruel and nasty for you if until now two eyes = dead but reading things out when there's no time pressure can be fun. Really don't worry if you have trouble solving it, I didn't recognise the seki when I found it in my early readings of the problem.

[Amelia]

So I was at the Kido Cup the last three days. It was intense. I didn't fare very well in the tournament with only 2 wins in 7 rounds, though I did beat an 11 kyu. (On average the strength of my fellow DDKs seemed to have not so much to do with their actual ranking).

I met nice people (including Bonobo!) and got tons of games against stronger people between rounds, so basically it was go playing all day long. Yesterday evening, hoping to find an opponent but not daring to ask anyone, I just sat at a board, my whole body language screaming 'I wanna play'. After a couple of minutes, someone came to sit in front of me, and without a word, started playing. We had no idea who the other one was and how strong he was. It's going to be a while before I get to play a 1 kyu as white again ^^° He was nice to me. I only lost by 30 points. I also got a completely bewildering lecture about some joseki I had never heard about. In the end they had to kick me out at one in the morning while I was finishing one last game against a 4 kyu. The last round this afternoon was terrible, I was exhausted and defeated myself with a self-atari. I felt actually relieved that the game was over so I could just go and collapse on a bed somewhere.

Then I found out that the pro players were offering one on one fast games and anyone could participate, so I got myself two cups of coffee and asked for a game. Obviously I got wiped from the board, it was fascinating.

So, in summary, lots of fun

[Boidhre]

So I was at the Kido Cup the last three days. It was intense. I didn't fare very well in the tournament with only 2 wins in 7 rounds, though I did beat an 11 kyu. (On average the strength of my fellow DDKs seemed to have not so much to do with their actual ranking).

Over in Ireland anyway everything above 10k is pretty much in flux. People seem to gain 2 stones over a day sometimes but it's probably just due to variance in their play or something. DDK ranks are rarely very accurate for very long anyway at the rate many people improve.

[Amelia]

Over in Ireland anyway everything above 10k is pretty much in flux. People seem to gain 2 stones over a day sometimes but it's probably just due to variance in their play or something. DDK ranks are rarely very accurate for very long anyway at the rate many people improve.

Well, in this case it's their EGF rating, which comes only from playing on tournaments, so it may be months old. For example if I play in the next local tournament in november, my rating will be the one resulting from my performance this weekend (14k or something). It's not like a KGS rating that's getting updated as soon as you play a game. Many DDKs also don't really have an EGF rating, so they have to pick a number more or less accurately. Anyway, all those games were pretty balanced. Their were all challenging but definitely playable, with mistakes on both sides, and who made the bigger mistake lost. It's funny though that my easiest game was against an 11k and my toughest against a 17k.

[Boidhre]

Over in Ireland anyway everything above 10k is pretty much in flux. People seem to gain 2 stones over a day sometimes but it's probably just due to variance in their play or something. DDK ranks are rarely very accurate for very long anyway at the rate many people improve.

Well, in this case it's their EGF rating, which comes only from playing on tournaments, so it may be months old. For example if I play in the next local tournament in november, my rating will be the one resulting from my performance this weekend (14k or something). It's not like a KGS rating that's getting updated as soon as you play a game. Many DDKs also don't really have an EGF rating, so they have to pick a number more or less accurately. Anyway, all those games were pretty balanced. Their were all challenging but definitely playable, with mistakes on both sides, and who made the bigger mistake lost. It's funny though that my easiest game was against an 11k and my toughest against a 17k.

Well, it's more that people have to guesstimate how much stronger (if at all) they have become since their last tournament which as you say could be months old. Trying to work out what their KGS rank translates to or whatever (which again doesn't really work well at DDK level, or well in general for some people). If you carry forward a 4-5 month old rank as a ddk and were playing and studying in the meantime it's not going to be accurate for the majority of people.

[Amelia]

What about this?

$$B Black to Play
$$ ------------------
$$ | . 2 6 4 7 . . . .
$$ | 1 3 5 O X . . . .
$$ | . O O O X . . . .
$$ | O O X X X . . . .
$$ | . X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B Black to Play
$$ ------------------
$$ | . 2 6 4 7 . . . .
$$ | 1 3 5 O X . . . .
$$ | . O O O X . . . .
$$ | O O X X X . . . .
$$ | . X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]

I found this too:

$$B Black to Play
$$ ------------------
$$ | 8 5 3 4 7 . . . .
$$ | 1 2 . O X . . . .
$$ | 6 O O O X . . . .
$$ | O O X X X . . . .
$$ | . X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B Black to Play
$$ ------------------
$$ | 8 5 3 4 7 . . . .
$$ | 1 2 . O X . . . .
$$ | 6 O O O X . . . .
$$ | O O X X X . . . .
$$ | . X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]

Ko?

On a side note: I defeated GnuGo in an even game today. I made it resign! Let's see if I can do it again

[Boidhre]

What about this?

$$B Black to Play
$$ ------------------
$$ | . 2 6 4 7 . . . .
$$ | 1 3 5 O X . . . .
$$ | . O O O X . . . .
$$ | O O X X X . . . .
$$ | . X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B Black to Play
$$ ------------------
$$ | . 2 6 4 7 . . . .
$$ | 1 3 5 O X . . . .
$$ | . O O O X . . . .
$$ | O O X X X . . . .
$$ | . X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]

I found this too:

$$B Black to Play
$$ ------------------
$$ | 8 5 3 4 7 . . . .
$$ | 1 2 . O X . . . .
$$ | 6 O O O X . . . .
$$ | O O X X X . . . .
$$ | . X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B Black to Play
$$ ------------------
$$ | 8 5 3 4 7 . . . .
$$ | 1 2 . O X . . . .
$$ | 6 O O O X . . . .
$$ | O O X X X . . . .
$$ | . X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]

Ko?

On a side note: I defeated GnuGo in an even game today. I made it resign! Let's see if I can do it again

Read back through the hidden posts, your questions are answered there better than I could do.

I found both of the above, so they're dealt with.

[Amelia]

Oh, you're right

[Amelia]

I changed my study plan because really, I'm tired to keep going through the same books.

Problems:
- Get strong at Tesuji: a bit confusing and I don't have a good solving rate, but I think there is much to learn from it.
- 1001 Life and Death problems: many basic shapes to study, at least the first levels should be easy enough for me.

Game collection:
- Learning from pro games, from Yuan Zhou
I bought it because I heard it was easy to understand even for weak players, and indeed it's instructive and fun to read.

[Amelia]

I only just realized that the L19 website has a pro game database. I take this opportunity to post the pro game that I'm currently studying:
Kong Jie vs Chen Yaoye


Move 5 and move 11 have especially caught my attention (with the help of the very easy to read commentary of Yuan Zhou of course ^^)
Move 5 looks like an approach from the wrong direction.
Move 11 is interesting to me because I had no clue what 3 points pincers were for before reading the game commentary. Now I am a little less clueless. I tried it right away: http://lifein19x19.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=8425

[Bonobo]

Oh, I missed this post …

[..]

I met nice people (including Bonobo!)

thanks, I also met nice people, including you, which was a special pleasure

and got tons of games against stronger people

[..] actually relieved that the game was over so I could just go and collapse on a bed somewhere.

Then I found out that the pro players were offering one on one fast games and anyone could participate, so I got myself two cups of coffee and asked for a game. Obviously I got wiped from the board, it was fascinating.

Wow, you’re made of hard stuff, respect!

So, in summary, lots of fun

Yes, it definitely was, makes me want to visit more tournaments if they’re this near. Slept most the two following days though.

[Amelia]

[..] actually relieved that the game was over so I could just go and collapse on a bed somewhere.

Then I found out that the pro players were offering one on one fast games and anyone could participate, so I got myself two cups of coffee and asked for a game. Obviously I got wiped from the board, it was fascinating.

Wow, you’re made of hard stuff, respect!

Or a little crazy.

Yes, it definitely was, makes me want to visit more tournaments if they’re this near. Slept most the two following days though.

The Rahlstedter Tengen is in November. It has 7 rounds like the Kido Cup but in two days instead of three, so you won't get bored. I hope I can go.