If you have it, James Davies' Life and Death has good sections on these groups with problems, or you can look at some of the problem collections available online for them. They come up (with variants) more often than you think. I feel that the L(+1/2), J(+1), tripod and door groups are important to know, along with 2nd and 3rd line strings and the notchers. The carpenter's square you can look into a bit, but it's fairly complicated.



Divide and conquer. When white hanes later, you always have the choice of letting him connect or not, depending on which side you want, of course.


It's possible I read too much into what you wrote, but I stand by the idea that it's the specifics of implementation that lead to things going wrong, and not the idea itself. Bill's comments give a good example for the left side.



I rather like the ladders on there, because it's an easy way to get games with people who are stronger than you to see how they play, and how they pick at your weaknesses. Particularly for the 19x19 one, it's hard to maintain a position because the games are so long and people are constantly jumping up around you, but the position itself isn't very important.

Bill:

The first thing I noticed from your review is on . I thought I was attacking on a large scale! The point behind that move was to try to keep White from being able to get even one eye on the side, making him try to get both eyes in the center as opposed to one eye on the side and only one in the center.

The more I think of it, attacking on a large scale is another one of those concepts I have difficulty with. Trying to attack the H12 stones didn't seem to go so well, either.

Wouldn't you know it only took a few days to get a game suitable for posting? I thought I did fairly well in a whole bunch of places: the top right, the double approach in the bottom left, the invasion on the top, and reducing white in the bottom center. Every time I counted, though, I seemed behind by just a little bit. If I made a mistake, it was resigning too early, before White really did kill all those stones. And as it turned out, there was a move to save them that I didn't see until the third or fourth time I was going through the game. But I would have saved the stones in gote, and White would have had the opportunity to get the sente moves in the endgame.

Hi Fedya,

I wonder if P4 direction is bigger.
( If W replies by crawling on the 3rd line and B builds up a wall there,
then your follow-up is pincer from R12 direction:
the top right is bigger potential for growth.
The game move R8 pushes W toward your top right corner, reducing some growth there. )( Hi Bill: between double approach LL star point (e.g. F3)
and double approach LR komuku... is LR bigger ? )

An extension from top right iron pillar is bigger (e.g. N17).
( After W settles with , it's not easy to attack W... for now. )

W takes the local shared vital point first.
The stone may end up misplaced after the local exchanges.

Your notes here: there's some weakness in your shape at P15:
B can be cut there ( left-over from ).

Maybe C3.

C3 seems bigger to me.
W's game move: why build a wall there ?
There's not much to gain from a wall there.

Your notes here: I agree about W's inefficient wall.
But you want to jump ASAP, instead of crawling.

Maybe D10 is more efficient to fix W's shape ( thanks to crawl ).

Locally, C3 still seems very big to me.
( Miai connect; or, simply keima to B4: hurts your bottom group less ).

Maybe L3.

How about F-03?

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

Fedya, how do you assess this position?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc Position at move 26
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . O . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . . . , . . . O . X X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . O . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

Black and White are even on the right. Black's position on the left is open, but that's canceled out by White's being open on the bottom. White is probably slightly ahead thanks to the top, but Black has sente and can enter into White's open moyo first.

So what you're saying is that I should have played F3 here instead of several moves later?

EdLee:

I thought I played a natural extension, and chose for White which direction he'd get to extend in.

I figured in addition to reducing White I was playing at the sort of point White would want to take to reduce me.

Are you suggesting to jump to B10?

(Of course, I did eventually invade at C3, but it was probably later than I should have.)

Well, I would probably have played the double approach before this position, but I am interested in this position because I think that it is a good position for formulating a game plan.



IMO, White has the lead now and Black never caught up.

Each side has weaknesses. How do you assess them?

And how do you think that White got ahead?

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

Hi Fedya,Both are facts -- no dispute there, at all.
The question is whether that's a good direction for B.
( I don't know the answer -- could be good for B. )

Corollaries: a natural extension doesn't necessarily means it's good ;
choosing a direction for your opponent also doesn't necessarily means it's good.

Compare: a common misconception:
a sente move means it's a good move
( resulting in playing any and all sente moves immediately. )

( In any case, whether is good or not didn't decide the game.
I'm just wondering. )

Only my opinion. Maybe Bill, etc. can evaluate better.

No, not to the 2nd line. Jump to the same level, 3rd line --
but I'm not sure about the timing.

With the biggest open area being ready for severe pressure, I think Black is not that far behind. Of course Black may have to defend against a cut in the upper right. White's stones cooperate well and he's fairly strong all over the place. Black too, but he has perhaps omitted to apply the right amount of pressure in the opening, gradually losing the benefit of moving first.

As I said, every time I tried to count I seemed slightly behind and could never figure out a way to catch up.


White has open frameworks on both the top and the bottom that Black can invade. Either the double approach at F3, or some places at the top, like G17 or M16. Black obviously has an open framework on the side, but defending it right now would be passive and slow.


Ed Lee mentioned P14, which really should have been around O17 or P17. I think I also got behind by not playing a pincer attack when White approached in the top left.

I think that Black dropped the ball with .

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . . . , . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . O . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If you don't play the jump, where do you play?




How might you exploit White's weaknesses? You did invade at G-17 and make the double approach at F-03 later in the game, but you did not play the pincer at M-16. Does any other move come to mind (aside from your actual play)? Play around with the positions and try out some variations. What conclusions do you draw?

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

They probably will come up after you study them. After I learned about the L-group I L-ified my opponent's stone in many 9x9-games.

Similarly, I did some exercices on the L+3 side group (which is a critical 2-space notcher). In my next (19x19) game I saw "hey, I can live here by making an L+3-group".

Right now, I have learned about the carpenter's square without liberties and am waiting for it to come up (or I will look up which josekis are susceptible to make it come up).

was a mistake? I thought I was playing a good move, expanding my group and making it safer, while setting the state to put pressure on the white group above. After all, White had to respond with Q12, which I thought was rather small.

I guess I should have played immediate at R12?

It gives White a base, and threatens to approach the top right corner.



That's the threat of R-16, isn't it? Also, weakening White strengthens Black in that region.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . . . , . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . O . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

How would you feel as White?

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

Wouldn't you know I'd have the chance to play a splitting attack like that in my game today? And wouldn't you know it didn't work out anything like Bill's post implies it should? Meanwhile, my opponent plays a splitting attack against my Kobayashi fuseki, and gets a good position out of it.

I think F16 should have been at E16, but that's about the only tactical mistake I can find. I guess my mistakes were strategic, picking risky pincer attacks instead of going for sure territory. And playing the wedge on the left side.

(Oh, and it's tough to keep a positive attitude when the game is clearly lost 70 moves in.)

splitting attack is effective in bill's diagram because both of white stones are weak. in your game only one of your opponent's stones was weak.

with regards to the bottom, 39 is REALLY BAD. it's REALLY BAD.

Instead of H2, I like M3 - you should keep that area. Once white breaks in and lives, your influence is useless.

Even before that, instead of G4, maybe play h4. You are strong on bottom so you need to get a good result in that area.

_________________
be immersed

variation. After the cross cut ( R4, Q4 ), atari is S3.
One joseki continuation:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc connects at (a)
$$ . . . . , . . . |
$$ . . . . . X . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . 9 a O . . |
$$ . . 7 8 3 5 . . |
$$ . . . 4 O X . . |
$$ . . . 0 X O 1 . |
$$ . . . . . 2 6 . |
$$ . . . . . . . . |
$$-----------------[/go]

Maybe R7 better ?

Shape problem at Q8. ( Related to at R7, maybe. )

H3, M3 possible invasion points. ( Not sure about the timing. )

Impossible (re: Shaddy). Toothpaste.
Locally, L5 atari is natural. Have to watch out for weakness at P6.

Gote.

W should tenuki. ( Maybe J8, etc. )