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 Post subject: Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Post #861 Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 11:08 pm 
Judan

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Well, tonight didn't go as expected. Still away from home, so I planned to rank up my Tygem account today - if I can get to 4d, I can enter the 4d-8d server on the Korean client. With a winning streak of 9 games in a row, needing only 2 more wins to advance to Tygem 4d, I expected it to be a piece of cake.

Well, things didn't turn out as expected. Instead, of winning two games in a row to advance, I lost two games in a row.





I didn't review these games either... The plan was to play some quick games to win and rank up, and then start playing seriously on Tygem. But perhaps that plan is not feasible.

I seem immune to rank up on any go server, whether it's KGS, Tygem, or... well, those are the only servers I play on :-)

Probably a bad idea to keep playing today, as I might get on tilt. Sometimes this game is very frustrating.

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Post #862 Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 11:12 pm 
Judan

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In a sense, I suppose when I'm playing just to rank up without thinking much about the game, I'm not really playing go. Maybe exercising my instinct. But the game of go is a thinking game, so if I'm only exercising instinct, and don't put much thought into playing my best... Maybe that's not really playing go.

Nonetheless, somewhat annoying to be frozen at a rank.

Maybe I should order some business cards: Brian Kirby, Permanent KGS 1d, Tygem 3d

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Post #863 Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 12:15 am 
Judan

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Well, I bit the bullet, and played a couple of more games. Fortunately, I won them, and advanced to 4d on Tygem. So now I can enter that server.

So from now on, I'll aim for more serious games on Tygem, now that I ranked up. I'll start reviewing again, too.

Here are the games.




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Post #864 Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 3:06 am 
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I attach a shallow review, mostly of the fighting in one of your games several posts back



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Post #865 Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 7:05 am 
Oza

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Kirby wrote:
In a sense, I suppose when I'm playing just to rank up without thinking much about the game, I'm not really playing go. Maybe exercising my instinct. But the game of go is a thinking game, so if I'm only exercising instinct, and don't put much thought into playing my best... Maybe that's not really playing go.

Nonetheless, somewhat annoying to be frozen at a rank.

Maybe I should order some business cards: Brian Kirby, Permanent KGS 1d, Tygem 3d


I wouldn't be at all surprised if you think on some level that the next rank is in the bag and then proceed to phone it in for the next few games. I don't have any great solutions to present, unfortunately.

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Post #866 Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 8:06 am 
Judan

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Thanks, dhu163. You pointed out some nice variations. I liked the one where he could have killed me.

@skydyr: I agree I play poorly when I think about ranking up. Like I said, though, I played a couple more games and already ranked up.

I will try to play more seriously, now. Especially if I can get my opponents to accept games longer than 10 minutes, plus byo-yomi, which seems popular. Free account on the Korean Tygem client must pay T-points to do auto-match request, so I tend to be flexible with game settings, so that we can play the game. Manual game requests are free, but time consuming, I guess.

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Post #867 Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:17 am 
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This is the review of the next game tygem game along. The key points are in the early middle game, though I have lots of comments throughout


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Post #868 Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 10:11 pm 
Judan

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I played another game on KGS today. My opponent felt stronger than me. He made a terrific result in the bottom right, turning my area of influence into a measly 6 points. I felt he is good at using aji, and playing lightly with his stones. I have a hard time playing this way, and play very heavy. I'd like to learn from him, but I'm not sure I view go the same way he does right now... I'll keep thinking about that.

Anyway, here is the game and review.



He resigned for some reason, but I think he was clearly winning - maybe he didn't like that I was thinking so long.

Anyway, I won't do the fancy diagrams, even though readers probably like them. I have setup an organized schedule for myself these days, and I don't have enough time to invest in the diagrams for now.

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Post #869 Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 9:16 pm 
Judan

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Been feeling a bit down lately, so I haven't played in awhile. But I decided to play another game on KGS.

I did automatch, and had a 3-stone handicap game against KGS 3k. The game is pretty short:



I didn't review that deeply, because there aren't that many parts of the game to review.

Perhaps affecting me more psychologically this game, after this win, I moved up to KGS 2d, again. Whenever that happens, I go on a losing streak, often going back to 1k. I don't think I've ever won a game *as* KGS 2d. So maybe I'll take a bit of a break and study a little bit more and try to play really seriously for the next rated game I play on KGS. It'd be nice to win as KGS 2d at least once in my life :-)

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Post #870 Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 3:53 pm 
Judan

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I logged on to KGS today, and much to my dismay, my rank was once again 1d (though I didn't play any games). Despite the fact that there are no game records to distinguish between my 2d account from yesterday and my 1d account from today, I must say that I felt a little disappointed.

The disappointment didn't last long, however, because in a matter of minutes, my account changed to 2d, again - without my having played any games. I must be on the borderline between 1d and 2d right now, so the games that other people play affect my ranking.

Clearly, from a logical standpoint, I should feel no different about myself whether the account says "2d" or "1d". I didn't play any games between now and yesterday, so I certainly can't have any difference in feeling about my gameplay. Nonetheless, the feeling is there. When my account says "2d" next to it, something inside of me feels a bit happier. When it says "1d", I feel a little bit more sad.

Indeed, this seems rather petty. Since I was feeling a bit introspective, I began to ponder other areas of my life.

Running
In middle and high school, I ran cross-country. If you're not familiar, this basically amounts to training for and competing in 5-kilometer footraces. Frankly speaking, I hated running. Some people talk about some sort of pleasure they get from it. But for me, it is tiring. It is not enjoyable - my legs hurt, I get tired, and I even threw up once from the pain in my stomach. Why did I do it then? It's been some time since I ran, but if I remember accurately, the biggest motivation was my coach. Somehow, I felt some sort of obligation or responsibility to him, I suppose. Maybe that's not a wise decision. Was there, then, any pleasure that I got from running? Thinking back, I think the greatest pleasure I had was that of accomplishment. For example, finishing a race or completing a workout felt great. Because, well, I had accomplished something and it was over.

College Study
I have a few degrees from college and graduate school in the areas of computer science and mathematics. I didn't have a computer until I was in high school, but I've always been somewhat fond of math - so it makes sense that I pursued these areas. Why did I enjoy math? Thinking back, maybe it's not always the case that I enjoyed math. I enjoyed math when it made sense to me. This happened pretty often throughout high school and into early college. But I recall having some confusion in my Differential Equations course. At that point in my life, I wasn't that into studying, so the material got harder and I didn't learn much more about that course. It wasn't that fun. So I suppose I enjoyed math when I accomplished something - maybe I felt that I had proven my knowledge or something like that.

Language Study
I lived in Sendai, Japan for the 2004/2005 school year. I had never studied a foreign language before, and frankly, I wasn't that interested in studying Japanese at the time. There were some required language courses, but I participated somewhat casually. It wasn't until I met my wife that I came to appreciate some value in studying. I aimed to get into the same Japanese class as her, and studied Japanese harder than I've studied anything else in my life to this date. Did I enjoy studying Japanese? Looking back, I have some positive feelings. It felt good to start to understand grammar, learn kanji, and to be able to understand what people were saying. I suppose I felt some pride, especially since I started learning quickly. But if I drill down to the exact moment that I may have been studying a particular new word or kanji character - was that fun? Not really. It was somewhat boring and tiring. Boring and tiring while I was doing it, but I had a fun feeling later - maybe out of pride? Maybe out of accomplishment? Maybe I just felt good about myself or the new knowledge that I had acquired.

Go Study
This is a go study journal, so of course, it seems natural to come around to my go study. Do I feel good about studying go? For example, do I enjoy doing tsumego? I would say that I enjoy solving tsumego, especially if I've given the problem some effort. But I don't particularly enjoy the state of not knowing the answer. Prior to coming up with a solution, I feel some amount of discomfort: Will I be able to solve the problem? This sequence doesn't work for me. Have I considered all possibilities? Something's not quite right.

These types of thoughts are someone uncomfortable. But once I've "cracked" the problem, that definitely feels good. Perhaps, the more difficult it's been to obtain the solution, the more pleasure I achieve from overcoming it.

Playing Go
What about actually playing go? Certainly, I enjoy the feeling of winning the game. In fact, even before the game is over, once I "know I've won", I feel some sort of pride or happy feeling. Perhaps if I were to think the same way as CrazyStone does, my internal measure of my chances of winning the game are directly related to the feeling of relief and/or happiness. If I am very confident in my position and in the win, I feel good. If I feel less confident, or if I feel I am losing, I feel bad.

Consumption
A bit of a sharp contrast to the topics I've brought up so far, but suddenly, consumption - specifically eating and drinking - comes to mind. Occasionally, I'll drink a bit, or maybe eat some unhealthy "comfort food" if I've been feeling particularly stressful, or if I'd like to let off some steam. Do I feel good when I do this? Certainly! Maybe having some drinks and pizza is unhealthy, but at the moment I'm eating, along with the anticipation leading up to it, I feel great. It's very relaxing... But in contrast to the other topics I've brought up so far, the feeling from the next day is often not so good. I sometimes feel regret. It was nice to eat that pizza or drink that drink, and I certainly enjoyed it in the moment. But the next day, I feel bad about the consequences - extra calories, wasted time that could have been better spent doing something else. Perhaps this example is the opposite of the others...

---

I've been rambling for quite awhile now. But I think I'm starting to observe a pattern.

In various areas of my life, there are many "Type 1" (T1) activities (making up this categorization on the fly) that are:
  1. Unenjoyable in the moment that I am doing them; yet,
  2. Bring me satisfaction upon accomplishing them.

In contrast, some "Type 2" (T2) activities that I am not proud of bring me:
  1. Satisfaction in the moment that I am doing them; yet,
  2. Bring me disappointment or regret after I've done them.

So where does this bring me? Well, if I spend 100% of my time on T1 activities, I will:
  1. Never be enjoyed in the present moment. Learning new things, exercising, and general self-improvement are somewhat painful activities.
  2. Enjoy satisfaction in the accomplishment: When I look back at what I've done, I will have a sense of pride in what I've accomplished. I will feel happy about my past (even if the present will be difficult :-)).

In contrast, if I spend 100% of my time on T2 activities, I will:
  1. Enjoy the present moment. It's relaxing to consume, relax, and not study.
  2. Feel regret and disappointment of my lack of accomplishments: When I look back at what I've done, I'll feel bad about it.

Somehow, it strikes me that it must be valuable to strike a balance between T1 and T2 activities. But what should that balance be?

It's difficult to establish a basis for a balance without quantifying what my happiness is in any of these activities. Generally speaking, however, perhaps I can roughly hypothesize that T1 activities give me pleasure when I am thinking about the past (but not the present), whereas T2 activities give me pleasure when I am thinking about the present (but not the past).

A silly, but perhaps unwise solution would be: Engage only in T2 activities, and don't think about the past. After all, this would give me pleasure in the current situation, and if I can find a way to eliminate any regret or negativity that I'll think in the future, the net effect would be positive. Furthermore, studies have shown a "fading affect bias" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fading_affect_bias), or FAB, where:
Wikipedia wrote:
...
information regarding negative emotions tends to be forgotten more quickly than that associated with pleasant emotions.


So basically, while engaging in a T2 activity may bring about guilt or bad memories, because of FAB, perhaps this feeling would be temporary and the benefit I'd get from the immediate pleasure would result in an overall net positive.

Somehow, this doesn't seem right, though. For example, if I enjoy a bit of pizza in the moment, that's great. But if I eat 2 large pizzas in one sitting, it will be hard to overlook the discomfort I'd feel in the future.

So perhaps there is more to the T1 activity than meets the eye. T1 activities are generally wiser in that the future consequences - independent of your memory - are positive.

In all of this rambling, I suppose I've come to a rather obvious observation: T1 activities increase the likelihood that I will be in a "good situation" later in life, regardless of my recollection. Additionally, from what I have read about the FAB, perhaps I don't recall some of the negative feelings I had in the past when I engaged in T2 activities.

This argument is starting to tip the scales toward T1 activities.
  1. I'll be in "better situations" in the future, resulting in more happiness.
  2. I'm perhaps already biased toward ignoring some of the negative aspects of T2 activities that I've already engaged in. Accordingly, T1 activities are likely even a better choice than I feel intuitively.

The downside is still, of course: the present sucks. It's hard work engaging in T1 activities, even though they will put me in a better situation later, bring me happiness, a sense of accomplishment, etc.

...

I don't know of a solution to that downside. But perhaps it is best to strive for T1 activities as much as possible, and fall back to T2 activities when I lack the energy or motivation. In other words, T1 activities should be the goal, even when they are difficult...

So back to the original discussion... My rank is hovering between 1d and 2d right now, but instead of indulging in whatever feelings that brings me, the best course of action is to keep engaging in T1 activities, even if they are difficult and/or boring. This will lead me to a greater result in the future, something to look back on and be proud of, etc.

Practically speaking, I should stop typing so much here, and start doing some go problems.

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Post #871 Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 6:51 pm 
Judan
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Quote:
I should stop typing so much here,
Perhaps this has some (significant?) therapeutic or cathartic effect.
Hmm... is this an unconscious, underlying theme of some journals and blogs...

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 Post subject: Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Post #872 Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 7:49 pm 
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I appreciate your introspective posts, Kirby. I also find that playing go can reveal broader patterns in my life.

I think you are describing an age old struggle that many (or most) of us have felt. Ideally, those things that bring us long term benefit would also be the things that bring us pleasure in the present. But often that is not the case. Our desires are disordered. We can be drawn to activities that are destructive, or drawn to overindulge in acts that are good in moderation.

I believe that how we deal with this observation about ourselves is one of the most important decisions we will face. I hope that go can serve as a training ground for us both, and I hope that you find deeper answers as well.

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Post #873 Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 2:40 am 
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What you describe is indeed an old tension of (wo)man: the inability to always spontaneously do what's good. When "good" means "good for society", this is actually the description of the "original sin". These days "good" has come to mean "good for ourselves" but the inability remains the same.

In my experience there are other activities than type 1 & type 2. It's not true that long term benefit always comes at the expense of short term pain or boredom and neither is it true long term damage is always caused by short term pleasure. The two other quandrants exist as well but we are not as aware of them because they don't create tension of any kind:

- we all drink water at least sometimes (and not always coffee or alcohol) and especially when thirsty this can be quite enjoyable
- we don't usually drink sulphuric acid, which would both damage us and isn't pleasurable at all

These are trivial examples but I think there are less trivial ones to be found in our daily lives. We have grown so accustomed to the idea of T1/T2 and being sinners, that we tend to feel guilty when doing pleasurable stuff and seek boring or painful activities which allegedly will bring long term benefit.

When I started realizing that there is no such strong correlation, I stopped doing certain things, started doing others and above all stopped feeling guilty about lots of things.

- I stopped urging myself to run. I love cycling so that's what I occasionally do instead. Besides, lots of injuries come from running. Is it really so beneficial? I play table tennis too: enjoyable and good for health;
- I stopped feeling guilty about not reading books as often as I should. Who has proven anyway that books are good? Is the Internet THAT much worse?
- But I did quit smoking recently. I realized I didn't actually enjoy it and well ...
- On the other hand I keep drinking a few good beers once a week, because I really like it.

etc etc

This relates to go as well. It was Bill who once said: "above all, study what you like". None of us is becoming the next Lee Sedol, so it doesn't really matter what and how we study. Better enjoy ourselves and not get too worked up about our rank fluctuation (but even that is human, so don't feel too guilty about that either).


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Post #874 Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:46 am 
Judan

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Knotwilg,
Thank you for your insightful post. You bring up a very good point that there are other activities that are not strictly T1 or T2. As you accurately point out, some choices may be strictly better or worse than others - drinking sulphuric acid is neither pleasant nor beneficial.

Once again, I'm compelled to draw an analogy with go. At a workshop in Seattle last year, Kim Myungwan 9p explained a bit about the value of influence. Specifically, he pointed out that, as a rule, influence is more useful at the beginning of the game. Influence can lead to future points in a number of ways - for example, the opponent can be attacked if they are near the influence, thereby bringing points later in the game in a different part of the board.

In contrast, in the endgame, territory is king. You don't care about making a wall - you just want to maximize points as much as possible around the board. In the endgame, influence has less value.

Myungwan explained this by comparing influence to a university degree, and comparing territory to cash. If your objective in life is to gain money, it's often a good idea in a person's "fuseki" (i.e. when they are young) to get a college degree. The investment gives significant potential for making more money later in life. In contrast, by the time you are 70, while it might be entertaining, it's less likely to make financial sense to start on a college degree. At that point, if the goal is to make money, it'd be better just to have a lot of cash in your "endgame" and live life comfortably.

Let's move back to T1 and T2 activities. And let's add in two other quadrants, T3 and T4, defining them each as follows:
* T1: Enjoyable in the long-term; unpleasant right now.
* T2: Unpleasant in the long-term; enjoyable right now.
* T3: Enjoyable in the long-term; enjoyable right now.
* T4: Unpleasant in the long-term; unpleasant right now.

Of course, real activities don't have a binary enjoyable/unpleasant switch, but perhaps we can consider these categories as the extreme cases.

Now, since I enjoy comparing things to go, let's modify Myungwan's analogy, and equate "influence" to something that is positive for the long-term, and equate "territory" that is positive for the short-term immediate benefit.

Graphically, we can consider examples from black's perspective.

Example T1 Situation
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . O O . . .
$$ | . O O O B B B . .
$$ | . O B B . . . . .
$$ | . B . . . . . . .
$$ | . . B . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]


Above, black didn't get any immediate benefit. Black gave up points for white, so in the short term, black is suffering. But the investment will likely lead to future benefit, since black has significant influence on the outside.

Example T2 Situation
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . B B . . .
$$ | . B B B O O O . .
$$ | . B O O . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]


Above, black got immediate profit. But there is little potential on the outside, so there will likely be less future benefit in this local area.

Example T3 Situation
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ------------------
$$ | . . . . B B . . .
$$ | . B B B C C B . .
$$ | B C C C B B B . .
$$ | B C B B . . . . .
$$ | . B . . . . . . .
$$ | . . B . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]


Let's say that black captured white. Black has both territory and influence. It's a win-win situation, which can be compared to something that's both enjoyable in the present and enjoyable in the future.

Example T4 Situation
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ------------------
$$ | . . . . O O . . .
$$ | . O O O C C O . .
$$ | O C C C O O O . .
$$ | O C O O . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]


Finally, here, black was captured. Black has neither influence nor territory. This can be compared to something that's not enjoyable in the present, nor in the future. This is the "drinking sulphuric acid" result.

---

Ok, so we have some sort of vague analogy we can make. In go, you can have both influence and territory. Sometimes you make a tradeoff between the two. Sometimes you can get both. In life, there are activities that give immediate benefit. There are also activities that are not that fun, but which will give very significant future benefit.

In ideal situations, you can find ways to get both. Maybe you can capture a group and get both territory and influence. Great! In life, maybe you can find something that is enjoyable in the present, and also gives pleasure for the long term. Great!

But certainly, the T1 and T2 categories still exist, so at times, there is a conflict: Do I aim for immediate benefit, or delayed gratification? Do I aim for immediate profit and territory, or for investment in influence?

---

So maybe we can compare the decisions we make in life to playing a game of go. If possible, try to find multi-purpose moves - ones that give immediate and future benefit, for example. But sometimes, we must make decisions to sacrifice one area of life in exchange for benefit somewhere else.

Then what does it mean to make effective decisions in life or in go? It's somewhat obvious to say, but perhaps it means to make decisions that result in the best situation. In go, this means weighing potential options, and opting for the strategy that will give you the best result. In life, maybe it's not that different.

If you can find something that you enjoy doing in the short-term, which is also beneficial in the long-term - cycling, for example, maybe it is indeed a good choice. Maybe that move is purely better than a move that gives you both less territory and less influence.

But this points to something of key importance: the ability to evaluate a move's future and immediate benefit. To give an example, medicine has advanced over the years. Some types of cancer treatments may have had medicine ABC for treatment. After additional research and time, it was discovered that DEF was actually a universally better treatment. But before knowing about DEF, ABC was known to be the best choice.

Anyway, coming back to life and choosing what activities I should do, it might be difficult to accurately quantify whether a given action is X% T1 or Y% T2, or Z% T3, etc. But perhaps it's a best-effort type of thing.

As in go, I can:
  1. Read ahead about the likely outcomes.
  2. Make a best-effort evaluation of those outcomes.
  3. Act accordingly.

I like the idea of finding T3 activities in life. I think that's also something to strive for - why not do activities that are universally better?

I suppose that's the best I can do for now.

If decisions in life are really comparable to go, maybe someday AlphaGo can tell me how to better spend my time :-)

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Post #875 Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:59 am 
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Kirby wrote:
If decisions in life are really comparable to go, maybe someday AlphaGo can tell me how to better spend my time :-)


Perhaps, but I think this points to another confusion those of us with an intellectual bent sometimes make: Knowing what to do is not the same thing as doing it. It's an important first step, to be sure, and there are many moments where I have questions about the best way to spend my time. But there are other times when I know exactly what I should do to get the most benefit, but I make a different choice anyway. For example, I know that overeating at a good meal reduces the total amount of pleasure I get from the experience, but sometimes I do it anyway. Similarly, sometimes I "know" a move is right (for some value of knowing), but I don't play it for some reason.

I have hope that one day my mind and my will will act in perfect unity. But that day is still a long ways off.

I enjoy these types of posts. I wish we could sit over a board and play a game while discussing philosophy!

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Post #876 Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 9:03 pm 
Judan

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jeromie wrote:
Perhaps, but I think this points to another confusion those of us with an intellectual bent sometimes make: Knowing what to do is not the same thing as doing it. It's an important first step, to be sure, and there are many moments where I have questions about the best way to spend my time. But there are other times when I know exactly what I should do to get the most benefit, but I make a different choice anyway. For example, I know that overeating at a good meal reduces the total amount of pleasure I get from the experience, but sometimes I do it anyway. Similarly, sometimes I "know" a move is right (for some value of knowing), but I don't play it for some reason.


I definitely hear you there! Knowing what you "should" do is a challenge in itself. Narrowing the gap between this knowledge and your actions is a whole other can of worms! I'd certainly be interested to hear your thoughts on that!

jeromie wrote:
I enjoy these types of posts. I wish we could sit over a board and play a game while discussing philosophy!


Well, if you're ever in Seattle (or if I'm ever wherever you live), I'd certainly be up for that!

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Post #877 Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:16 pm 
Judan

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I'll be honest. I'm angry. I simply cannot win against 2d. And this game proves it. Finally had the courage to play as 2d against another 2d, and I totally blew it. Twice.

I made a big shape on top, and felt good about the game. Then he captured a tail of my stones. Frustrated. After calming down, though, I counted. I was still winning. I couldn't believe it.

Proceeded to endgame. Still ahead. He threatens to cut off my group. I let him. That group died. Game over.

Here is the game:


Honestly, I'm too angry to review right now. I briefly played out the few remaining endgame points, and saw that had I simply answered his threat to disconnect my group, I would have won by 10 or 15 points, depending on the order.

Simply cannot believe this. There is a wall between me and 2d that I cannot overcome, even if I have more points on the board near the endgame :tmbdown:


Back to 1d now. :grumpy:

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Post #878 Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:25 pm 
Judan

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In his defense, he could play J6 instead of K6 and still kill me. But if I had any sort of sense of the group dying, I could have answered M5 differently.

Ug. So angry.

...

At least we have that study group now. I guess I'll read the intro chapters to Relentless to blow off some steam.

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Post #879 Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:53 pm 
Lives with ko

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Hi Kirby. Couple of questions:

:b15: Why the attachment? After the descent, black is cut off and forced to live small in the corner, and has allowed white to undercut black. Instead, later, black could connect underneath. Is this for the wall you later developed?

:b25: Why the peep in this direction? It seems to strengthen white, and doesn't give any profit. And the cut doesn't work. bN7, wO7, then P10 or Q12?

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Post #880 Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 11:09 pm 
Judan

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sparky314 wrote:
Hi Kirby. Couple of questions:

:b15: Why the attachment? After the descent, black is cut off and forced to live small in the corner, and has allowed white to undercut black. Instead, later, black could connect underneath. Is this for the wall you later developed?



Hi, sparky314.

For :b15:, maybe I should give some context. I want to play this move:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . B . . O . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , X . O . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X C C C . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . C C C . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


It strengthens the marked area, and if white moves upward, I get territory on the right. I don't have any real weak groups this way.

But I thought he might be able to treat his stones lightly and flexibly. So I wanted to make him heavy first. As you point out, this is at the cost of points, and I incur a local loss.

My imagined sequence was something like this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . O . 4 O 2 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , X . O . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White's group seems kind of heavy to me, I live in the corner, I get profit on the right, and my group on the bottom was ok. I do incur local loss from that exchange at :b15:, but it seemed like an OK deal to me. However, the bottom was open enough that he could somewhat settle his group, as he did in the game. So in the end, I would say that I payed the local cost of losing points for :b15:, and his group was not all that heavy.

I don't feel terrible about it since my groups weren't that weak, but it wasn't ideal, probably.

Quote:
:b25: Why the peep in this direction? It seems to strengthen white, and doesn't give any profit. And the cut doesn't work. bN7, wO7, then P10 or Q12?


Yeah, bad move, I think. I played :b25: only because I thought it gave him good shape if he played there. But I didn't think much more outside of that.

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