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Offline illluck
 Post subject: Re: Red, a Go variant
Post #81 Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:51 am 
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Before triggering that, isn't "a" a simultaneous capture?

Edit: nvm, you mentioned 3 stones XD.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm91 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . + . X . X X O . O . |
$$ | O . . X . X O O O O O |
$$ | . O X O . X X X O X . |
$$ | . 2 X . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X O . O O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O + O O X O O O |
$$ | . . . . X O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O X X . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]


Yeah, definitely some strange shape here.
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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: Red, a Go variant
Post #82 Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:46 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm91 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . + . X . X X O . O . |
$$ | O . . X . X O O O O O |
$$ | . O X O . X X X O X . |
$$ | 3 2 X . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X O . O O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O + O O X O O O |
$$ | . . . . X O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O X X . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]


Fascinating game. How am I trying to prevent you from getting two eyes already :S

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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: Red, a Go variant
Post #83 Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:14 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm91 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . + . X . X X O . O . |
$$ | O . 5 X . X O O O O O |
$$ | . O X O . X X X O X . |
$$ | 3 2 X 4 0 . . . X X . |
$$ | 7 6 O . 9 8 . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X O . O O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O + O O X O O O |
$$ | . . . . X O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O X X . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]


Good grief, this game is silly. Don't play this line if you don't want to, I'm just speculating... ;)

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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: Red, a Go variant
Post #84 Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:10 am 
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Some thoughts for observers only for now:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . + . X . X X O . O . |
$$ | O . . X . X O O O O O |
$$ | . O X O . X X X O X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X O . O O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O + O O X O O O |
$$ | . . . . X O X X O . 1 |
$$ | . . . . . X 2 O X X . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . + . X . X X O . O . |
$$ | O . . X . X O O O O O |
$$ | . O X O . X X X O X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X O . O O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O + O O 3 O O O |
$$ | . . . . X O . 4 O . X |
$$ | . . . . . X + . X X . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . + . X . X X O . O . |
$$ | O . . X . X O O O O O |
$$ | . O X O . X X X O X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X O . O O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O + O O 6 O O O |
$$ | . . . . X O . + O 5 X |
$$ | . . . . . X + . X X . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]


Alive in sente??? Really???

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Offline illluck
 Post subject: Re: Red, a Go variant
Post #85 Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:43 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm91 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . + . X . X X O . O . |
$$ | O . . X . X O O O O O |
$$ | . O X O . X X X O X . |
$$ | X O X . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . . 4 . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X O . O O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O + O O X O O O |
$$ | . . . . X O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O X X . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]


When I was reading, I realized that the below is actually a cut:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm91 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . + . X . X X O . O . |
$$ | O . . X . X O O O O O |
$$ | . O X O . X X X O X . |
$$ | 3 2 X . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . 6 4 5 + . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X . 8 X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X O . O O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O + O O X O O O |
$$ | . . . . X O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O X X . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]


With 97 being the capture.

Though, if black answers my 95 with 96 in the diagram, I think I probably have a way to live even without this interesting cut shape.

Edit:
Though, the above cut removes one possible resistance from black:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm91 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . + . X . X X O . O . |
$$ | O . . X . X O O O O O |
$$ | . O X O . X X X O X . |
$$ | X O X 5 . . . . X X . |
$$ | 7 6 O 8 0 4 9 a . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X O . O O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O + O O X O O O |
$$ | . . . . X O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O X X . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]


Black captures at "a" and then I can use that weird cut.

This post by illluck was liked by: Bill Spight
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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: Red, a Go variant
Post #86 Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:26 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm91 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . + . X . X X O . O . |
$$ | O . . X . X O O O O O |
$$ | . O X O . X X X O X . |
$$ | X O X 7 . . . . X X . |
$$ | . 6 O 5 . 4 . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X O . O O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O + O O X O O O |
$$ | . . . . X O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O X X . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]


Bah.... I'm smelling funny things here.

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Offline illluck
 Post subject: Re: Red, a Go variant
Post #87 Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:28 pm 
Lives in sente

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm91 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . + . X . X X O . O . |
$$ | O . . X . X O O O O O |
$$ | . O X O . X X X O X . |
$$ | X O X X . . . . X X . |
$$ | 8 O O X . O . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X O . O O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O + O O X O O O |
$$ | . . . . X O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O X X . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]


Nice sense of smell - feel free to read the hidden comments.
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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: Red, a Go variant
Post #88 Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:31 pm 
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Aha, I knew there was something like that. Mostly because of my reading on how I think I might live here:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm91 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . + . X . X X O . O . |
$$ | O . . X . X O O O O O |
$$ | . O X O . X X X O X . |
$$ | X O X X . . . . X X . |
$$ | 8 O O X . O . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X O . O O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O + O O X O O O |
$$ | . . . . X O X X O . 9 |
$$ | . . . . . X . O X X . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]

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-- Creator of OGS --
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Offline illluck
 Post subject: Re: Red, a Go variant
Post #89 Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:34 pm 
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Uh-oh, I obviously have a worse sense of smell because I can't see it XD

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm91 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . + . X . X X O . O . |
$$ | O . . X . X O O O O O |
$$ | . O X O . X X X O X . |
$$ | X O X X . . . . X X . |
$$ | 8 O O X . O . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X O . O O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O + O O . O O O |
$$ | . . . . X O . . O . X |
$$ | . . . . . X + . X X . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]

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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: Red, a Go variant
Post #90 Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:39 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm101 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . + . X . X X O . O . |
$$ | O . . X . X O O O O O |
$$ | . O X O . X X X O X . |
$$ | X O X X . . . . X X . |
$$ | O O O X . O . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X O . O O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O + O O 1 O O O |
$$ | . . . . X O . . O . X |
$$ | . . . . . X + . X X . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]


S'ok, this is where I prove to be wrong no doubt :D

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Offline illluck
 Post subject: Re: Red, a Go variant
Post #91 Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:48 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm101 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . + . X . X X O . O . |
$$ | O . . X . X O O O O O |
$$ | . O X O . X X X O X . |
$$ | X O X X . . . . X X . |
$$ | O O O X . O . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X O . O O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O + O O 1 O O O |
$$ | . . . . X O 2 . O . X |
$$ | . . . . . X + . X X . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]


I feel so lost...
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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: Red, a Go variant
Post #92 Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:16 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm101 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . + . X . X X O . O . |
$$ | O . . X . X O O O O O |
$$ | . O X O . X X X O X . |
$$ | X O X X . . . . X X . |
$$ | O O O X . O . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X O . O O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O + O O 1 O O O |
$$ | . . . . X O 2 . O 3 X |
$$ | . . . . . X + . X X . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]


That was a blunder wasn't it?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm101 :w2: just below :w4:
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . + . X . X X O . O . |
$$ | O . . X . X O O O O O |
$$ | . O X O . X X X O X . |
$$ | X O X X . . . . X X . |
$$ | O O O X . O . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X O . O O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O + O O 4 O O O |
$$ | . . . . X O . + O 3 X |
$$ | . . . . . X + . X X . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]


This seemed best for both?

As it is, this looks a lot harder for White:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm101 :w4: to the right of :w2:
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . + . X . X X O . O . |
$$ | O . . X . X O O O O O |
$$ | . O X O . X X X O X . |
$$ | X O X X . . . . X X . |
$$ | O O O X . O . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X O . O O O X X . |
$$ | . O O O + O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O 2 + . 3 X |
$$ | . . . . . X + . X X . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]

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Offline illluck
 Post subject: Re: Red, a Go variant
Post #93 Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:18 pm 
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Ah, that simutaneous capture XDDDDD

I resign, thank you for the game :) I admit that my initial impressions were off - the variant is quite interesting, though confusing.
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Offline MarkSteere
 Post subject: Re: Red, a Go variant
Post #94 Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:27 pm 
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That was an awesome spectacle to behold! Thanks for the unexpected treat, guys. Wandering around my studio playing the sax, and watching two excellent Go players test out Redstone. It doesn't get any better :)

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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: Red, a Go variant
Post #95 Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:41 pm 
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And Mark, I want to eat both my words and my hat, that was fun, deep and interesting!

The endgame could get tedious when you start filling out all your eyes, but with skill you'll know when you've won and lost and be happy to resign, and besides, Go is tedious when your opponent starts playing in your territory when each stone is clearly dead.

So, anyone else for a game?

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Offline MarkSteere
 Post subject: Re: Red, a Go variant
Post #96 Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:03 pm 
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topazg wrote:
And Mark, I want to eat both my words and my hat, that was fun, deep and interesting!

No worries :) I'm glad you like the game.

Hopefully someone will accept your challenge. Luis? :D

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Offline Dusk Eagle
 Post subject: Re: Red, a Go variant
Post #97 Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:59 pm 
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I'm interested in trying this out with you topazg. I've made a new thread for it:

http://lifein19x19.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=5533

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Offline Bill Spight
 Post subject: Re: Red, a Go variant
Post #98 Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:23 am 
Oza

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Congratulations to both players! :)

Interesting game with new insights by both.

And congratulations to Mark! A very interesting go variant! :)

Hmmm. When will we see the first book of Tsume-redstone problems. ;)

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Offline MarkSteere
 Post subject: Re: Red, a Go variant
Post #99 Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:33 pm 
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Bill Spight wrote:
And congratulations to Mark! A very interesting go variant! :)

Thanks Bill :)

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