L19 2011/2012 tournament: PAIRINGS and RESULTS

Post Reply
Marcus
Gosei
Posts: 1387
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:51 am
GD Posts: 209
KGS: Marcus316
Has thanked: 139 times
Been thanked: 111 times

Re: L19 2011 tournament: PAIRINGS and RESULTS

Post by Marcus »

Magicwand wrote:if white cut as below...black will be in trouble.
i will have to think about why...but i know the answer is to cut.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 2 . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
This is one of my favourite positions. There's one more thing to do before the cut, though. I know two variations (hidden for brevity):
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 a . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
If Black tries to separate (b), White can cut.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 8 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 4 5 . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . 7 . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
So, Black can protect the cut, and White gets a large(-ish) corner.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 3 . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Second variation:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 a . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
A similar position. Black can still protect the cut (a), and again, White gets a large corner:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 3 . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
The other option for Black is the following:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . a 1 b . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X 5 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 2 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
:w6: is a nice tesuji. Black can't play at 'a':
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . W 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 B 2 4 . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X B O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . W W B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Black is in trouble here. Instead, Black should play at :w2: ...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 # 1 . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X B O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . W W B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
In the typical joseki, Black does not exchange :bs: for :w2: ... a slight advantage for White over the usual joseki, as Black has wasted some aji.
Top
User avatar
gaius
Lives in gote
Posts: 476
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:55 am
Rank: Dutch 2 dan
GD Posts: 56
KGS: hopjesvla
Has thanked: 193 times
Been thanked: 83 times

Re: L19 2011 tournament: PAIRINGS and RESULTS

Post by gaius »

ez4u, of course I know that your analysis usually does apply, and usually the hane is bad. But how about this case? I see this:
1) :b1: and :b3: have a beautiful relationship with the marked stone.
2) Black has sente to play :b5:, which is huge and makes ALL black stones work together.
3) Black can still look forward to a move like 'a', to connect all the stones and make the moyo reach out over the whole board.
4) If black would've blocked on the other side to begin with, that would have been gote.

Is really everybody disagreeing with me here?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . B . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 3 . . a . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
@Magicwand:
That second diagramme was more like a joke of course :)

But is your variation really playable?? I just see white dying with no compensation. There is not even a decent squeeze, I think.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 9 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 7 1 2 6 . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
My name is Gijs, from Utrecht, NL.

When in doubt, play the most aggressive move
Top
User avatar
HermanHiddema
Gosei
Posts: 2011
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:08 am
Rank: Dutch 4D
GD Posts: 645
Universal go server handle: herminator
Location: Groningen, NL
Has thanked: 202 times
Been thanked: 1086 times

Re: L19 2011 tournament: PAIRINGS and RESULTS

Post by HermanHiddema »

I think the next round can start, right?
Top
User avatar
topazg
Tengen
Posts: 4511
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:08 am
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Location: Chatteris, UK
Has thanked: 1579 times
Been thanked: 650 times
Contact:
Contact topazg

Re: L19 2011 tournament: PAIRINGS and RESULTS

Post by topazg »

gaius wrote:Is really everybody disagreeing with me here?
Sounds like it's a comparison between:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . B . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 3 . . a . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
and:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X 1 . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I'm not strong enough to say, but it feels like swings and roundabouts to me.
Top
User avatar
perceval
Lives in gote
Posts: 312
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:35 am
Rank: 7K KGS
GD Posts: 0
KGS: tictac
Has thanked: 52 times
Been thanked: 41 times

Re: L19 2011 tournament: PAIRINGS and RESULTS

Post by perceval »

topazg wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X 1 . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I'm not strong enough to say, but it feels like swings and roundabouts to me.
why is :w2: needed in that situation? can B kill otherwise ?
sente seems pretty big here so i would be tempted to tenuki as W if my corner can stay alive
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.
Top
User avatar
topazg
Tengen
Posts: 4511
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:08 am
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Location: Chatteris, UK
Has thanked: 1579 times
Been thanked: 650 times
Contact:
Contact topazg

Re: L19 2011 tournament: PAIRINGS and RESULTS

Post by topazg »

It's not necessary in an absolute sense, but this is pretty painful locally:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc (Ladder requirement notwithstanding)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X 1 . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O O 3 O 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 5 4 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X 1 . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O O 3 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 7 5 4 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Top
User avatar
ez4u
Oza
Posts: 2419
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:15 pm
Rank: Jp 6 dan
GD Posts: 0
KGS: ez4u
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Has thanked: 2355 times
Been thanked: 1337 times

Re: L19 2011 tournament: PAIRINGS and RESULTS

Post by ez4u »

HermanHiddema wrote:I think the next round can start, right?
Before all the other questions, I think this is key. The rounds have been slower than expected. Can we make some progress before 2012 rolls around? :)
Dave Sigaty
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21
Top
User avatar
ez4u
Oza
Posts: 2419
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:15 pm
Rank: Jp 6 dan
GD Posts: 0
KGS: ez4u
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Has thanked: 2355 times
Been thanked: 1337 times

Re: L19 2011 tournament: PAIRINGS and RESULTS

Post by ez4u »

gaius wrote:ez4u, of course I know that your analysis usually does apply, and usually the hane is bad. But how about this case? I see this:
1) :b1: and :b3: have a beautiful relationship with the marked stone.
2) Black has sente to play :b5:, which is huge and makes ALL black stones work together.
3) Black can still look forward to a move like 'a', to connect all the stones and make the moyo reach out over the whole board.
4) If black would've blocked on the other side to begin with, that would have been gote.

Is really everybody disagreeing with me here?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . B . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 3 . . a . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
...
I don't claim to really understand this stuff, but it seems to me that although Black has some nice frameworks here and there, he actually has no territory. Is it going to be enough? I think that White has all kinds of invasion points (see 'a' below). Also Black has some difficulty in how to close the bottom right - it has a poor relationship with the bottom left because White has an easy slide along the bottom. :b5: in the diagram above (marked stone below) might be better at 'b' because it would leave a follow-up play at 'c'. After :w1: below, I would not feel very worried as White, since the pressure would be on Black to show how to profit from the plays so far. (P.S. I just got back from dinner with a friend, so if none of this makes sense I blame it on the 2 1/2 bottles of wine consumed. :blackeye:)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . c . . |
$$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . b . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . . . . . . . a a . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Dave Sigaty
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21
Top
User avatar
Joaz Banbeck
Judan
Posts: 5546
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:30 am
Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
Location: Banbeck Vale
Has thanked: 1080 times
Been thanked: 1434 times

Re: L19 2011 tournament: PAIRINGS and RESULTS

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

HermanHiddema wrote:I think the next round can start, right?
Yes, it can. But October 17th is a big day for taxes ( April 15 plus the standard 6-month extension plus a weekend ) So, I'll probably not have pairings up until the 18th or late on the 17th.
Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207
Top
User avatar
Aphelion
Lives in sente
Posts: 766
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:14 pm
Rank: KGS 4 kyu
GD Posts: 227
KGS: Aphelion02
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 59 times

Re: L19 2011 tournament: PAIRINGS and RESULTS

Post by Aphelion »

Why aren't the pairings automated, like almost all tournaments are? I think this will do a great deal to minimize effort and have the tournament move along faster.
Top
gurujeet
Dies in gote
Posts: 52
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:55 am
Rank: AGA 7K
GD Posts: 0
KGS: gurujeet
DGS: gfromdc
Location: Chevy Chase, MD
Been thanked: 8 times
Contact:
Contact gurujeet

Re: L19 2011 tournament: PAIRINGS and RESULTS

Post by gurujeet »

Is the next round going forward?
Top
User avatar
Joaz Banbeck
Judan
Posts: 5546
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:30 am
Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
Location: Banbeck Vale
Has thanked: 1080 times
Been thanked: 1434 times

Re: L19 2011 tournament: PAIRINGS and RESULTS

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

UPPER BRACKET PAIRINGS - ROUND 4

Code: Select all

Greendemon vs Shadonra
Quantunf vs Laman
Bilapidate vs Kodomo
Stalkor vs Lefuet
Kirby vs Venkman
Marcus vs Lindentree
Lavalamp vs DuskEagle
Lorill vs Redundant
LOWER BRACKET PAIRINGS - ROUND 4

Code: Select all

Terracotta vs Chew
Jtscarry   vs Tofu
f4223n354  vs Aphelion
Psychee    vs ChradH
LiKao      vs Hushfield
CSamurai   vs TimoJ
Oren       vs Gurujeet
Karaklis   vs bye
[/size]
Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207
Top
User avatar
Redundant
Lives in sente
Posts: 924
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 3:00 pm
Rank: lazy
GD Posts: 0
KGS: redundant/silchas
Tygem: redundant
Wbaduk: redundant
DGS: redundant
OGS: redundant
Location: Pittsburgh
Has thanked: 45 times
Been thanked: 103 times

Re: L19 2011 tournament: PAIRINGS and RESULTS

Post by Redundant »

Lorill and I will be playing on Tuesday at 2pm EDT (8pm CEST).
Top
User avatar
perceval
Lives in gote
Posts: 312
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:35 am
Rank: 7K KGS
GD Posts: 0
KGS: tictac
Has thanked: 52 times
Been thanked: 41 times

Re: L19 2011 tournament: PAIRINGS and RESULTS

Post by perceval »

why does this "bye" guy keep losing but is still allowed to continue :grumpy: ? so unfair ...

reminds me of this "max" guy who never showed up at any exam nor lesson but always had the best grades
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.
Top
User avatar
Joaz Banbeck
Judan
Posts: 5546
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:30 am
Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
Location: Banbeck Vale
Has thanked: 1080 times
Been thanked: 1434 times

Re: L19 2011 tournament: PAIRINGS and RESULTS

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

He's not losing. He beat bye last round.
Unfortunately I seem to have misplaced the sgf.
Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207
Top
Post Reply

Return to “Tournaments”