The details of what she had invented of course a war secret. Not the point. What we are talking about is it having to be secret that she was a "techie" inventor.

Look, this is not just about women. Note another thread in this section is about Urschel. The idea that there is something strange/wrong about a woman with both beauty and brains is cultural and related to the something strange/wrong about a brawler with brains (would we find it quite as strange were Urschel a QB instead of an offensive lineman). That it is cultural (not innate) consider how in our culture we consider the pairing brawler/superlative fighter and poet. But not at all strange to Vikings and not at all strange for a samurai.

I remember living in Russia back many years ago. This one friend of mine beat me at chess everytime despite being many years younger. He told me that his grandmother was much better than him and competed in women's tournaments when she was younger. I really doubt I could be a match for her even now. Hmm.

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(in a book lost in the fire, so I can't look up for details) Reuben Fine was playing a simultaneous at some Russian high school and he promised a bicycle if any student playing against him could beat him (or was it just draw?). Anyway, he wrote that there was this one girl, he would have given her the game, but since he didn't actually have a bike (not expecting to need to have one) he fought the game out to a difficult endgame, his strong area, and pulled the game out.

The evidence on this point is remarkably thin. Prior to Judit Polgar, there was no observational evidence that a woman could be top ten in the world in chess, and then there was. Until last year, there were no female Fields medalists, and then there was one.

Our social experiment of not suppressing women's talents is no more than two generations old (and not everyone is on board with the experiment). Give it a dozen generations, and we might be in a position to draw some positive conclusions that our talents are different.

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Occupy Babel!

I don't know whether being male helps your chances of being good at chess. I don't know if being young does, either, though data seems to suggest it.

I don't know if being from a "chess playing country" helps either. Maybe, maybe not. There are probably a number of correlations you could draw from the stats. But one thing I do know is that a stat doesn't define anybody.

So whatever your gender, whatever your age, wherever you are, whatever your background - follow your passion with all that you have. We have but one life, so let's not waste it worrying about what *might* not be possible.

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be immersed

I did not know that. Can you elaborate?

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I have not played bridge actively since '89, but I doubt if anything has changed in that regard. That was the general opinion when I was playing, and I shared it. OC, there is only anecdotal evidence and opinion about average players. However, even though most top level players are men, women have always been at the pinnacle of bridge. In the early 1930s the most famous bridge player in the world was Ely Culbertson, but his wife, Jo, was regarded by other experts as the better player. Also see

Helen Sobel ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Sobel_Smith )

Dorothy Hayden ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Hayden_Truscott )

Jacqui Mitcell ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacqui_Mitchell )

Rixi Markus ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rixi_Markus )

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The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

Just because of the picture.

Margaret Hamilton, director of the Software Engineering Division of the MIT Instrumentation Laboratory, which developed on-board flight software for the Apollo space program. Her work is said to have prevented an abort of the Apollo 11 moon landing. She also coined the term “software engineering. Here she is standing next to a stacked output of the code her team wrote for the mission.

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Patience, grasshopper.

I haven't played actively since 1995, but I when I was active I didn't realize that this was a generally accepted truth. I'm familiar with the names you mention and their achievements, but I always thought the absolutely most brilliant players where the famous members of the blue team, Garozzo, Forquet, Belladonna and (much lesser known) Siniscalco (the other members, Avarelli, Chiaradia, Pabis Ticci etc were of course great players as well but I don't think they rose to the same level). During later times there have been many great male and female players, but it seems to me that the very best men have usually been hailed for greater skill than the very best women.

That of course has nothing to do with the actual skill, it may well be that top women are better that top men and/or women on average are better than men on average, but I have never known that, and in fact this conversation is the very first time I've heard about it.

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Hmmm. We may be seeing a difference in cultures between the US and Europe. Even in the US, if you looked only at tournament bridge you could get the impression that men are generally better than women. And social bridge has declined considerably in the US over my lifetime. It may be that women here are not attracted to bridge like they used to be. I do not know anything about the social bridge scene in Europe.

Edit: My point in bringing up the women bridge stars was to point out that Helen Sobel in her day certainly had a claim to being the best player in the world, as did Josephine Culbertson before her, although Oswald Jacoby or Howard Schenken may have been better then. When and where I was growing up, women were more attracted to bridge than men were. And they more than held their own.

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

I have not played bridge in many, many years but used to play in the clubs 3 or 4 nights a week until I discovered go. The university go club was almost exclusively the domain of male students and so I was surprised to find that when I started to play in the local clubs and in the team leagues the majority were women. However, I do not recall that the better players were women, with one exception. Almost every session was won by either my partner and me or by a very stern couple of older women. At tournaments it seems that the majority were male. This was in Britain. When I came to the US I played in clubs a bit at first and do not remember a gender bias either way. I never played a tournament in the US. So my anecdotal evidence does not seem to support Bill's claim.

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Still officially AGA 5d but I play so irregularly these days that I am probably only 3d or 4d over the board (but hopefully still 5d in terms of knowledge, theory and the ability to contribute).

Just to be clear, I was talking about the average level of play. I am not claiming that men do not dominate the top levels of play. I do think that testosterone plays an important role in competitiveness. Was Benito Garozzo better than Helen Sobel? I think so. But that kind of question does not even arise in chess or go.

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

Ah, yes, I have not played a single hand of social (rubber) bridge since I was about eight years old or so. I was thinking and talking about duplicate bridge all the time. At least in Finland (and probably throughout continental Europe, but I may be wrong here) social bridge is virtually non-existent (in non-duplicate form; one could argue that going to a bridge club for the weekly pairs tournament is social and not tournament bridge).

In tournament (duplicate) bridge circles the consensus was that the players of social (non-duplicate) bridge are not so skilled as the duplicate players. This, again, may be entirely different in the US.

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Yes, local duplicates are pretty social in the US. (Although I remember a gray-haired lady who played a real cut-throat game. She really wanted to earn her 100 master points per year. )



Aside from the better rubber bridge clubs, that was so when I was playing.

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The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

How much would you charge for "tj86430 is the most inspiring poster on this forum".

How much would you charge for "tj86430 has no idea what he is talking about".

Do you require payment in real money, or will you accept fiat?

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Still officially AGA 5d but I play so irregularly these days that I am probably only 3d or 4d over the board (but hopefully still 5d in terms of knowledge, theory and the ability to contribute).

Whatever he offers, I'll double it for "Fiat money is real money, duh."

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Occupy Babel!

I'll take any fiat you don't want.

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

You can always make an offer

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Offending ad removed

What makes money "real"? (what do you think makes some money real and some money not real?)

Why might you think "a share in large stone disks with holes through the center" is either less real than "gold" or less fiat than "a right to collect a debt"? What about cowrie shells?

Gold (or other "real money") is no less "social convention" than any other sort. It is the social agreement that whatever is exchanged as money has value that makes it so.

I think this is not a good place to discuss such a topic, but I would be happy to debate it in another off topic thread if you wish.

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Still officially AGA 5d but I play so irregularly these days that I am probably only 3d or 4d over the board (but hopefully still 5d in terms of knowledge, theory and the ability to contribute).