rouyakun. May 27, 2013. To make 3d KGS in 2013 (by Dec 31, 2013).
Fairy86. Apr 21, 2013. To make Tygem 9d.
Vladimir. Apr 19, 2013. To make KGS 1d in 12 months (May 1, 2014).
LokBuddha. Feb 24, 2013. From KGS 3d to 9d.

billywoods. Dec 30, 2012. To make KGS 1d "within about 3 months" (Apr, 2013). ( Apr 22, 2013: KGS 3k )
OtakuViking. Dec 31, 2012. From KGS 1d to "become very strong!".
OtakuViking. Aug 13, 2011. To make 1d in 1 year.
OtakuViking. Aug 31, 2011. From 2k to 3d in 1 year.otenki. Dec 19, 2012. From KGS 9k to 2k in 1 year (Dec 19, 2013).
NoSkill. Oct 22, 2012. From 2k to 5d by summer (June, 2013). Last visited this forum: Jan 09, 2013.
Alguien. Sep 20, 2012. To make 1d.
virgo. Aug 26, 2012. From EGF 12k to 1d.
Christien. Aug 21, 2012. From KGS 1d to insei "in a few years".
hailthorn011. May 22, 2012. To make KGS 9d in 2 years (May 22, 2014), then Pro. ( Apr 21, 2013: KGS ~5k )
nyuubi. Apr 19, 2012. From KGS 1d to 3d in 1 year (Apr 19, 2013). Last visited this forum: Jun 25, 2012.
Rafa. Jan 04, 2012. To make 1d. Last visited this forum: Jan 11, 2013

xSuperbiax. Nov 29, 2011. From KGS 2k to 5d (long term). Last visited this forum: Dec 16, 2011. (No username xSuperbiax on KGS, Apr 21, 2013.)
RBerenguel. Nov 25, 2011. To make 1d.
Leyleth. Nov 22, 2011. To make Pro. ( "I was forced to give up, unfortunately." May 23, 2012 )
Simba. Apr 15, 2011. From KGS 8k to 1d in 1 year. ( "I've not officially got 1d on KGS yet" Feb 20, 2012 )
JarrodCL. Apr 01, 2011. To make 1d. Last visited this forum: Sep 17, 2012. No KGS username JarrodCL on Apr 21, 2013.
Stefany93. Jan 01, 2011. From ddk to 1d in 1 year "by 1st of January 2012". ( Feb, 2013: KGS Azumi93 8k )

spacellama11. Oct 12, 2010. To make KGS 1d in 3 months (Jan 1, 2011). Last visited this forum Jan 30, 2011. No KGS username spacellama11 on Apr 21, 2013.
Shaddy. Jul 25, 2010. To make KGS 7d in 1 year. (Jul 25, 2011) ( Jan 23, 2013: KGS Shadonra 2d )Redundant. Jul 03, 2010. KGS 3k to 1d in 2010.Nikolas73. Jun 30, 2010. From KGS 6k to 1d in 6 months (by 2011). ( Apr 5, 2013: KGS 6k )
SoDesuNe. Jun 29, 2010. From KGS 4k to 1d in 6 months (Dec 29, 2010). ( "1-dan, hmm, still not sure." Apr 13, 2013. )

This was my personal favorite.

http://senseis.xmp.net/?Hal9666

I'd like to get to 4 kyu, never mind 4 dan.

The dan plan: http://thedanplan.com/about/.

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Occupy Babel!

From chatting to a few people who are into golf, he's actually doing very well so far.

Awww, I feel so left out from your new list Ed.

It's not exactly clear to me what the intention of this thread is, but I'm not sure if it's the kindest thing to do to point out people's failures in achieving their goals so explicitly like this.

I've failed in goals that I've made before, and I wouldn't really mind if people publicly announced my failures (actually, I'm kind of into that thing for some reason :-p). But some people might have different perspectives on the matter...

My initial reaction was similar. Then I stopped and thought about the fact that these people publicly announced their goal and I didn't get the impression that Ed was taking a dig at anyone here or trying to humiliate people. I think he was just giving a long list of people who've gone out publicly with their goals and failed, in order to start a discussion about the setting of very ambitious goals. I wouldn't personally make the point this way but there isn't anything wrong with using public information to make it in my opinion.

Perhaps, but I think that this is at least debatable. While it's true that the information was provided in some format to begin with, presentation accounts for something, and information is added here (eg. KGS rank is <X> comments) - the post doesn't only consist of the original comments, but adds details (that can be deduced, perhaps).

If we want to talk about failed goals, I would rather just make a thread about failed goals, perhaps having a title indicating something about failed goals...

Still, if the people that are being talked about aren't bothered, there's no problem. I have no idea if they are or not.

The thread title is too ambiguous - is this a place where we can list everyone who has ever abandoned a Malkovich game, a book group, a series of 1001 games... or do we need to start a new thread for that?

I think stating overambitious goals is a fine tradition among go players. It's a good way to gather motivation for studying harder. It doesn't matter that such goals are often unrealistic or aren't reached.

Collecting them in a big "I told ya so" post just seems a bit petty and counterproductive to the spirit of encouraging each other. Maybe if that wasn't the intention of the original poster he could clarify what it was?

In the meantime, I'll continue to be "shodan by the end of the year", it has been more than 10 years after all, no reason to stop now.

Ambiguity aside, the point seems to be that setting goals is easier than achieving them. There was a discussion a while back about whether it was better or not to publicly announce one's goals, and if I recall, there was a psychological downside postulated to doing so because the felt similarity of the rush of the announcement to the achievement itself. I personally belonged to the camp who kept their goals to themselves - partly to avoid public embarrassment (see above), but also because I prefer my own nagging to that of others. Just so you know - I didn't reach mine either. Hasn't stopped me from setting new ones though.

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"When you are learning, it is not so important whether you are right or wrong." - Bill Spight

I think this thread is a kind-of reply to this thread: Project Shodan, KGS nick - Vladimir.

And I don't mind being in that list. I mean, I still use the thread more or less regulary so everyone can read it when I post something new ^^ Funny though, back then my plan was to reach Shodan, which I have yet to conquer, now my plan is to ultimately make 5-dan EGF =D

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My "guide" to become stronger in Go

In Robert Cialdini's "Persuasion: The Psychology of Influence", there's a part where he treats the subject of public announcement of goals. As the social creatures that we are, it's very difficult to retract something said publicly. Social proof is a powerful motivator, and may even change us in ways that will help us remain congruent with our previously outspoken views. Very potent stuff.

That being said, public judgement being the main factor in this approach, it seems very important to me that one pick a goal that is verified as both achievable and, with a proper regimen, probable. Something that's been done before. Otherwise you're simply setting yourself up for failure.

It's also very important to have other driving forces and to lay down your train's tracks. Have an alarm go off to remind you to study tsumego. Write "Two serious games today" in the appropriate box of your calendar. Motivation is a fickle thing, and proper steps must be taken as appropriate for the end goal.

All in all, it's a drastic method. Cialdini goes on to talk about how this 'social proof' principle was used to re-mold the political views of American prisoners of war in Chinese camps. Saying things like "I will be 1-dan in a year" may or may not be an appropriate goal to set publicly, and there is an entire community of Go players to ask how fast they achieved shodan from X kyu.

Despite all this, I think one should ask the people in question before touting their failures around. I'm sure EdLee had some ulterior motive in mind, but the thread is quite ambiguous (as has been stated). It would be great if he were to post again and let us know what's what.

"Making ridiculous goals is a tradition amongst go players" + "making a list of failures isn't a proper thing to do". Well if this is (and for me it is) a list of failures, than certainly this isn't a good tradition.

Having said that I always have a good laugh when another person not having a clue neither about how much effort must be put into something, but also having problems to dish out a fraction of it states that he will become next "world champion" because he will do few pushups every second day, eats his cereals, and is miles ahead in comparison to some "dude".

As I do have a good laugh because of them, I am bit afraid about sharing my "rotlfs" and "lols" in fear, that this can cause them not to pop out as often as they do.

There of course were few "study journals" that weren't ridiculous, but those are a minority for sure.

Yes, there have been at least a couple of studies that I know of regarding this phenomenon.

I'm a bit saddened that there is now some down-talking on study journals, even saying they are ridiculous. I mean, what's the point?
Sure they are alway the bunch of people who need to vent on the internet and feel big by talking down on others but aside from that where is the harm in study journals? I don't have anything against a constructive opinion, like overall experience says that this or that will be hard to accomplish. But why it seems easier to point out the negative sides than cheer up a bit yourself and just which good luck (or offer actual advice)?
Study journals are no contracts, they are simple threads with goals and maybe dreams, written down to get psyched up (and maybe psych others up, too). Who cares about certain scientific studies in this context? Go is a hobby not our livelyhood, we don't have to succeed, we can drop it anytime we want.

So, don't forget to dream and dream big! =)

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My "guide" to become stronger in Go

Calling the behavior of claiming publicly that You will practice 1-2 hours a day and become a pro/9 dan/champion in short time ridiculous is "constructive criticism". I don't think there is anything rude in calling such blatantly wrong claim ridiculous, if anything I would be more offended that some people think so little is required to achieve what they "claim", which means little respect to the people who actually achieved these "landmarks".

Anyway, let's not continue this part of the topic, as I stated previously I have no interest in people stopping their "ridiculous" storytelling, and won't be convinced that calling things accurately can be regarded as inappropriate

Yeah, but if people all around you keep saying: "I'll make 1D in a year!" or similar and you get the feeling this is a normal and achievable goal, how do you feel when you set this very goal for yourself, and after a year you aren't even barely there? That you're too stupid to achieve that very common goal?

From this list I don't think anyone who sets himself a goal is being ridiculous. I do feel like perhaps looking closely at what other people have achieved can help new members to make more reasonable goals, that they can feel good about afterwards by actually reaching them. If you discuss it theoretically, without looking at actual achievment, then what you discuss has not much to do with reality. At the moment what you hear when someone asks "I wanna be 1D in a year" is: "It's a very common goal", "It's been done before", "It's possible if you work hard". It would be useful to know how many out of 100 people who had this goal really did make it? And from those who made it and those who did not, how hard did they work?

I find this reality check a good idea. I don't think anyone should feel ashamed in this list, but maybe we should all reconsider our personal goals based on the results exposed there, rather than on our wish to become strong in no time A good goal is a reachable goal.

I want to hear what Ed thinks.

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Occupy Babel!