Segoe tsumego pdf booklet

aberdeengo · #1

Hello,

I've made available a pdf booklet of Segoe's tsumego dictionary.
It is similar in style to the tsumego collections put out by tasuki and Philip Waldron, e.g. the cho life&death and classic tsumego collections.

I sourced it from the flygo website, where there are solutions.
I've not included the solutions here as they may be copyrighted.

Low kyu players will be able to solve some problems but it's most suitable for low dan to high dan players.

Enjoy.

http://aberdeengoclub.yolasite.com/resources/segoe-tsumego.pdf
http://aberdeengoclub.yolasite.com/resources/segoe-tsumego-dbl.pdf

tentano · #2

May all old out of print books suffer the same fate.

John Fairbairn · #3

Quote:

I sourced it from the flygo website, where there are solutions.
I've not included the solutions here as they may be copyrighted.

So why flag up a copyright-infringing site?

Quote:

May all old out of print books suffer the same fate.

Being out of print is not a valid reason for copyright infringement.

PS I happen to know Cho was not happy with previous attempts to mess around with his book. He's not going to do anything specific, I'm sure, but this is the sort of thing that makes the Nihon Ki-in (and others) feel bitter about helping the west, as they sit round a table and discuss redundancies in their publishing section.

If you're so sure the publishers and authors don't mind, why don't you contact them first?

Cassandra · #4

John Fairbairn wrote:

Quote:

I sourced it from the flygo website, where there are solutions.
I've not included the solutions here as they may be copyrighted.

So why flag up a copyright-infringing site?

Good question !!!

As far as I know (with regard to Chess-problems, but it will be the same with Go-problems), at least in Germany it is NOT the solution that is under copyright, but the PROBLEM'S SETUP.

So infringing the copyright would also be done by publishing all the problems' setups alone.

When I remember correct, the justification was that a "solution" would show an "absolute truth" (like "4" as the result of the formula "2 + 2 = ?"), and "truth" would be nothing that could be copyrighted. The creative labour of an author, accessible to being copyrighted, would be the creation of the problem's setup alone.

RobertJasiek · #5

The Berne Convention
for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works
http://www.wipo.int/treaties/en/text.jsp?file_id=283698
and national laws of the authors' or publishers' countries apply. IIRC, literary work by Germans is protected 70 years after the last publication according to the (possibly inherited) copyright. I do not know about periods under Japanese law.

EDIT: Cassandra, added text to a solution can easily alter what you describe.

Cassandra · #6

RobertJasiek wrote:

EDIT: Cassandra, added text to a solution can easily alter what you describe.

This is self-evident.

Writing a comment is quite another pair of shoes than the solution sequence itself.

But as long as the comment is not copied ...

tapir · #7

The practice of publishing go problems without solutions (to avoid copyright infringement) may have had its origin at Sensei's Library and spread from there. People tend to miss the fact, that the tsumego collection in question was a classical one. While the original argument, that the classical problems itself can hardly be claimed, but the solutions / texts may potentially be recent, is a strong one, transferring it to recent collections, as if a tsumego (collection) can never be copyrighted, isn't all that convincing.

tentano · #8

So, since this was published in 1954, the correct course of action would be to wait until 2024?

How well protected is a specific tsumego, though? I can definitely see that any accompanying text, the actual printed diagrams themselves, and any other part of the books as printed, but what about the arrangement of the stones? I really don't know what copyright law does with a game state.

One other thing that struck me when I looked up information about the book, is that Segoe died before I was born. So we're talking about a book which has long been out of print, by an author who died a long time ago. To me, this would easily make this book as much of a piece of classical literature as Gokyo Shumyo. Especially since we're still talking about it so many years later.

tchan001 · #9

What tapir means by 'classical' is that the books are ancient works which are so old that no one can actually claim copyright on the original work anymore.

RobertJasiek · **#10**

A game state is an idea, which is not copyrightable, A particular, creative description of a game state or its embedding in a creative collection of gane states can have a copyright.

tchan001 · **#11**

RobertJasiek wrote:

IIRC, literary work by Germans is protected 70 years after the last publication according to the (possibly inherited) copyright. I do not know about periods under Japanese law.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_law_of_Japan
Length of protection

Quote:

Works authored by an individual, under their own name or a known pseudonym, are protected for fifty years following the individual's death. Works authored anonymously or under an unknown pseudonym, as well as works authored by corporations, where the individual author or authors are unknown, are protected for fifty years following publication. As of May 2014, in the ongoing Trans-Pacific Partnership negotiations, Japan had reportedly agreed to extend the duration of protection to seventy years to be more in line with the United States and other nations.[7]

Cinematographic works are protected for seventy years following publication (or seventy years following creation, if the work is not published).[8] This update was made in 2004 to be more consistent with other nations around the world, as the previous term was fifty years. However, in 2006 the Tokyo District Court said that the 2004 law cannot be applied retroactively, so that all cinematographic works published (or created, if not published) before 1953 are now public domain.[9] However, in 2007 the Tokyo District Court ruled that for works (in particular from Akira Kurosawa) released before and in 1970 copyright protection is extended until 38 years after the original copyright holder's death.[10][11]

Neighboring rights apply for fifty years after the work is performed, transmitted, or put on sale.

Works authored by, or transferred to, residents of countries which were Allied Powers in World War II, before the effectuation of the San Francisco Peace Treaty, are given some prolonged protection by an exemption law. This extension compensates for the unprotected period in World War II, and varies with the country of the author or the copyright holder in the wartime. The prolongation is normally by 3,794 days (including Australia, Canada, France, United Kingdom, and the United States), but some countries ratified later, and have longer wartime (the longest is 4,413 days for Lebanon).

tapir · **#12**

tentano wrote:

One other thing that struck me when I looked up information about the book, is that Segoe died before I was born. So we're talking about a book which has long been out of print, by an author who died a long time ago. To me, this would easily make this book as much of a piece of classical literature as Gokyo Shumyo. Especially since we're still talking about it so many years later.

This is a reasonable point (apparent interest in the book may even bring a new edition at some point), but the distinction between problem and solution does not figure in it at all. The solutions are evidently as old as the problems in this case.

Sennahoj · **#13**

Thanks aberdeengo!

It would be nice to include translations of the titles for the 29 categories

(I would personally remove the "Go proverbs by Sego" section, it doesn't seem like a natural place for this. In fact I was confused for a little while, guessing that there was 29 of them and that they corresponded to the categories, but of course this was not the case)

tentano · **#14**

So, it's still copyrighted until 2022, not 2024.

Looks like it's pretty clear, from Robert's comment, that this can be a copyright violation for the next seven years. After that, though, it's in the public domain.

skydyr · **#15**

tchan001 wrote:

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_law_of_Japan
Length of protection

Quote:

Works authored by an individual, under their own name or a known pseudonym, are protected for fifty years following the individual's death.

Based on this, one would presume that the work is copyrighted in Japan until 2022, barring the potential for a copyright extension in Japan.

My understanding is that for foreign works published before 1978, and not in the public domain there before 1996, the US copyright for the work is protected for 95 years from publication, but IANAL.

In addition, regardless of whether individual problems are copyrightable or not, collections as a whole are considered copyrightable because of the judgement and discretion involved in selecting and excluding items from the text.

RBerenguel · **#16**

John Fairbairn wrote:

...
Being out of print is not a valid reason for copyright infringement.
...

I have strong mixed feelings about this. I love purchasing go books, not only because I like them but also as encouragement for writers. But I'll take as example a book I own and IIRC you know something about: How to Improve on a 5x5 board, by Fukui Masaaki. How could I, on the west, legally (actually there's even no way to do it illegally) get this book?

I was incredibly lucky a friend of mine was selling his whole go collection and happened to mention he had it in passing on a chat (since he wasn't going to sell this one, so it was not on the list.) So, now I have it. Likewise with a book on commented (in Japanese, sadly...) 9x9 games from a TV tournament (I think it's from there.)

oren · **#17**

RBerenguel wrote:

I have strong mixed feelings about this. I love purchasing go books, not only because I like them but also as encouragement for writers. But I'll take as example a book I own and IIRC you know something about: How to Improve on a 5x5 board, by Fukui Masaaki. How could I, on the west, legally (actually there's even no way to do it illegally) get this book?

I was curious if I could find one right off the bat but failed. Six copies are on amazon.co.jp but limited to Japan only shipping. Akashiya would be a best bet since they will ship internationally and may have it. Nowadays, it's not too hard to find the books and get them shipped out.

edit...
Actually I was looking at this.
http://www.amazon.co.jp/s/ref=nb_sb_nos ... 2%E7%A2%81

This one you can just buy new and have it shipped anywhere.
http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E7%94%BB%E6%9C ... 2%E7%A2%81

RBerenguel · **#18**

oren wrote:

RBerenguel wrote:

I have strong mixed feelings about this. I love purchasing go books, not only because I like them but also as encouragement for writers. But I'll take as example a book I own and IIRC you know something about: How to Improve on a 5x5 board, by Fukui Masaaki. How could I, on the west, legally (actually there's even no way to do it illegally) get this book?

I was curious if I could find one right off the bat but failed. Six copies are on amazon.co.jp but limited to Japan only shipping. Akashiya would be a best bet since they will ship internationally and may have it. Nowadays, it's not too hard to find the books and get them shipped out.

edit...
Actually I was looking at this.
http://www.amazon.co.jp/s/ref=nb_sb_nos ... 2%E7%A2%81

This one you can just buy new and have it shipped anywhere.
http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E7%94%BB%E6%9C ... 2%E7%A2%81

Funny, the new edition didn't appear on the Nihon Kiin page for Masaaki (at least didn't when I checked last time, 2-3 years ago,) and searching for title (the Japanese title, which I got from searching for masaaki in yesasia.com) on amazon.jp didn't yield any result.

Also, weird this book is not on yesasia.com, I thought they more or less had all go related books by this publisher

Edit: also, there's a matter of convenience. A year or so ago I read a submission on HackerNews about why people pirated Game of Thrones, and the usual answer was not because it was cheaper, no. A lot of "pirates" were actually paying for HBO go or whatever it is called to watch it on their computers/devices through the producer. But it worked *so* bad and rarely that for them it was much more convenient to get it illegally.

oren · **#19**

RBerenguel wrote:

Edit: also, there's a matter of convenience. A year or so ago I read a submission on HackerNews about why people pirated Game of Thrones, and the usual answer was not because it was cheaper, no. A lot of "pirates" were actually paying for HBO go or whatever it is called to watch it on their computers/devices through the producer. But it worked *so* bad and rarely that for them it was much more convenient to get it illegally.

We tend to have both here. People who like the pdfs of Cho Chikun's Encyclopedia of Life and Death and people who just would never pay anything getting it for free. This pdf is a continuation of that trend.

RBerenguel · **#20**

oren wrote:

RBerenguel wrote:

Edit: also, there's a matter of convenience. A year or so ago I read a submission on HackerNews about why people pirated Game of Thrones, and the usual answer was not because it was cheaper, no. A lot of "pirates" were actually paying for HBO go or whatever it is called to watch it on their computers/devices through the producer. But it worked *so* bad and rarely that for them it was much more convenient to get it illegally.

We tend to have both here. People who like the pdfs of Cho Chikun's Encyclopedia of Life and Death and people who just would never pay anything getting it for free. This pdf is a continuation of that trend.

I think people that prefer books will get them anyway, even if the pdf is lying around free.

Segoe tsumego pdf booklet

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