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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: 122. Magicwand vs. Kirby
Post #241 Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:48 pm 
Judan
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm141 white: 3 black: 3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | X . . . X . O . . X O . X O . O X . . |
$$ | O X X , . 3 X X . X O . . . O X . . . |
$$ | O O O O . O . . O O X X . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X O . . . X . O X X . . |
$$ | X . X X X X O O X O O O X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X . X . . X . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . X X O X X X . O X . O X . . . |
$$ | . X . X X O O . O , X . X . O , . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O . O . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . X X O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . X X X O O X . X O O O . . |
$$ | . O O X O . X O O . O X . O O X X . . |
$$ | . O X X . . X X O . O X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . O . O X X . O . X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . O X X O . O X . . O O X X . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



one wrong move by black will change the outcome of this game.. :rambo:

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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: 122. Magicwand vs. Kirby
Post #242 Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:52 pm 
Judan
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm141 white: 3 black: 3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | X . . . X . O 4 . X O . X O . O X . . |
$$ | O X X , . O X X . X O . . . O X . . . |
$$ | O O O O . O . . O O X X . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X O . . . X . O X X . . |
$$ | X . X X X X O O X O O O X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X . X . . X . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . X X O X X X . O X . O X . . . |
$$ | . X . X X O O . O , X . X . O , . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O . O . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . X X O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . X X X O O X . X O O O . . |
$$ | . O O X O . X O O . O X . O O X X . . |
$$ | . O X X . . X X O . O X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . O . O X X . O . X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . O X X O . O X . . O O X X . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Well, for the first time in a little while, things seem a little bit dangerous. I'll have to roll up my sleeves here.
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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: 122. Magicwand vs. Kirby
Post #243 Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:00 pm 
Judan
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I don't really think I'm in trouble. I have these points as miai, after all:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm141 white: 3 black: 3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . C . . . O . O . . |
$$ | X . . . X C O X . X O . X O . O X . . |
$$ | O X X , . O X X . X O . . . O X . . . |
$$ | O O O O . O . . O O X X . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X O . . . X . O X X . . |
$$ | X . X X X X O O X O O O X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X . X . . X . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . X X O X X X . O X . O X . . . |
$$ | . X . X X O O . O , X . X . O , . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O . O . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . X X O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . X X X O O X . X O O O . . |
$$ | . O O X O . X O O . O X . O O X X . . |
$$ | . O X X . . X X O . O X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . O . O X X . O . X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . O X X O . O X . . O O X X . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


It feels awkward to left white have the left one, but he should be dead, so it's no real problem.


Edit: I guess he has D17 if I ignore the left one, maybe... Hmm...
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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: 122. Magicwand vs. Kirby
Post #244 Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:09 pm 
Judan
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Maybe I'll have to make this a capturing race by filling the ko at some point...

I should think about this a bit more carefully before just rushing into the sequence.
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Offline daniel_the_smith
 Post subject: Re: 122. Magicwand vs. Kirby
Post #245 Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:11 pm 
Oza
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That big dead white group in the middle only has one eye.

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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: 122. Magicwand vs. Kirby
Post #246 Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:11 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm141 white: 3 black: 3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | X . . . X . O X . X O . X O . O X . . |
$$ | O X X , . O X X . X O . . . O X . . . |
$$ | O O O O . O . . W W X X . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X W . . . X . O X X . . |
$$ | X . X X X X W W X W W W X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X W W X . X . . X . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . X X W X X X . W X . O X . . . |
$$ | . X . X X W W . W , X . X . O , . . . |
$$ | . . X W W W . W . W X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X W . . C . . X X O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . W W . X X X O O X . X O O O . . |
$$ | . W W X W . X O O . O X . O O X X . . |
$$ | . W X X . . X X O . O X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . O . O X X . O . X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . O X X O . O X . . O O X X . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Considering the circled point seems to kill all the marked White stones, I don't think White living in gote in the top left should be too concerning for Black?

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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: 122. Magicwand vs. Kirby
Post #247 Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:15 pm 
Judan
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You guys must read much faster than me. :-)

I am still calculating.
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Offline daniel_the_smith
 Post subject: Re: 122. Magicwand vs. Kirby
Post #248 Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:39 pm 
Oza
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Oh, wait, if white goes first I guess there's still a ko to live in the middle. And white has local threats.

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Offline daniel_the_smith
 Post subject: Re: 122. Magicwand vs. Kirby
Post #249 Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:48 pm 
Oza
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Kirby wrote:
You guys must read much faster than me. :-)

I am still calculating.


Kibitzers get an automatic +5 to reading, and it stacks with the ego bonus for being a dan player...

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This post by daniel_the_smith was liked by: topazg
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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: 122. Magicwand vs. Kirby
Post #250 Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:40 am 
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daniel_the_smith wrote:
Oh, wait, if white goes first I guess there's still a ko to live in the middle. And white has local threats.


A ko? Isn't this just alive?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm141 white: 3 black: 3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | X . . . X . O X . X O . X O . O X . . |
$$ | O X X , . O X X . X O . . . O X . . . |
$$ | O O O O . O . . O O X X . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X O . . . X . O X X . . |
$$ | X . X X X X O O X O O O X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X . X . . X . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . X X O X X X . O X . O X . . . |
$$ | . X . X X O O b O , X . X . O , . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O . O . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . a . 1 2 X X O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O 3 X X X O O X . X O O O . . |
$$ | . O O X O . X O O . O X . O O X X . . |
$$ | . O X X . . X X O . O X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . O . O X X . O . X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . O X X O . O X . . O O X X . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


"a" and "b" are miai?

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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: 122. Magicwand vs. Kirby
Post #251 Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:23 am 
Judan
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm141 white: 3 black: 3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | X . . . X 5 O X . X O . X O . O X . . |
$$ | O X X , . O X X . X O . . . O X . . . |
$$ | O O O O . O . . O O X X . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X O . . . X . O X X . . |
$$ | X . X X X X O O X O O O X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X . X . . X . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . X X O X X X . O X . O X . . . |
$$ | . X . X X O O . O , X . X . O , . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O . O . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . X X O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . X X X O O X . X O O O . . |
$$ | . O O X O . X O O . O X . O O X X . . |
$$ | . O X X . . X X O . O X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . O . O X X . O . X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . O X X O . O X . . O O X X . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


i did some counting...if i lose any group then i will not be able to win.
i must make sure all my group are alive.. therefore only one way to play this...

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Offline tj86430
 Post subject: Re: 122. Magicwand vs. Kirby
Post #252 Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:31 am 
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I think it really takes a magic wand to make all white groups alive

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Offline daniel_the_smith
 Post subject: Re: 122. Magicwand vs. Kirby
Post #253 Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 5:47 am 
Oza
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@topazg
You're right. I guess I still failed my roll. :evil:

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Offline ez4u
 Post subject: Re: 122. Magicwand vs. Kirby
Post #254 Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 5:51 am 
Lives in sente
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Obs:
I think that MW can not win, so he has to patiently wait and see if Kirby will lose! :grumpy:

I think that if Kirby plays :b1: below, he captures the two stones cleanly and makes his center stones safe. Then "a" and "b" are miai to kill something.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X . . b . . . . . 1 . . . O . O . . |
$$ | X . . . X O O X . X O . X O . O X . . |
$$ | O X X , . O X X . X O . . . O X . . . |
$$ | O O O O . O . . O O X X . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X O . . . X . O X X . . |
$$ | X . X X X X O O X O O O X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X . X . . X . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . X X O X X X . O X . O X . . . |
$$ | . X . X X O O . O , X . X . O , . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O . O . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . a . X X O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . X X X O O X . X O O O . . |
$$ | . O O X O . X O O . O X . O O X X . . |
$$ | . O X X . . X X O . O X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . O . O X X . O . X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . O X X O . O X . . O O X X . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: 122. Magicwand vs. Kirby
Post #255 Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 6:38 am 
Judan
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm141 white: 3 black: 3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . 6 . . . O . O . . |
$$ | X . . . X O O X . X O . X O . O X . . |
$$ | O X X , . O X X . X O . . . O X . . . |
$$ | O O O O . O . . O O X X . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X O . . . X . O X X . . |
$$ | X . X X X X O O X O O O X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X . X . . X . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . X X O X X X . O X . O X . . . |
$$ | . X . X X O O . O , X . X . O , . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O . O . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . X X O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . X X X O O X . X O O O . . |
$$ | . O O X O . X O O . O X . O O X X . . |
$$ | . O X X . . X X O . O X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . O . O X X . O . X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . O X X O . O X . . O O X X . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


As I said earlier, it looks like miai. If he tries something tricky in the corner, maybe I can ignore it.
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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: 122. Magicwand vs. Kirby
Post #256 Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 6:53 am 
Judan
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daniel_the_smith wrote:
Kirby wrote:
You guys must read much faster than me. :-)

I am still calculating.


Kibitzers get an automatic +5 to reading, and it stacks with the ego bonus for being a dan player...


Could be. I was always under the impression that kibitz reading was not as good as in game reading (eg. kibitzers don't have to consider everything, and can just go off of intuition), but it could just be me.
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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: 122. Magicwand vs. Kirby
Post #257 Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:45 am 
Judan
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12j take ko

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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: 122. Magicwand vs. Kirby
Post #258 Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:16 am 
Judan
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm141 white: 4 black: 3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . X . . . O . O . . |
$$ | X . . . X O O X . X O . X O . O X . . |
$$ | O X X , . O X X . X O . . . O X . . . |
$$ | O O O O . O . . O O X X . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X O . . . X . O X X . . |
$$ | X . X X X X O O C O O O X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X 7 X . . X . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . X X O X X X . O X . O X . . . |
$$ | . X . X X O O . O , X . X . O , . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O . O . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . 8 . . X X O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . X X X O O X . X O O O . . |
$$ | . O O X O . X O O . O X . O O X X . . |
$$ | . O X X . . X X O . O X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . O . O X X . O . X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . O X X O . O X . . O O X X . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Game over?
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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: 122. Magicwand vs. Kirby
Post #259 Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:39 am 
Judan
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm141 white: 4 black: 3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . 9 X . . . O . O . . |
$$ | X . . . X O O X . X O . X O . O X . . |
$$ | O X X , . O X X . X O . . . O X . . . |
$$ | O O O O . O . . O O X X . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X O . . . X . O X X . . |
$$ | X . X X X X O O . O O O X . O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X O X . . X . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . X X O X X X . O X . O X . . . |
$$ | . X . X X O O . O , X . X . O , . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O . O . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . X . . X X O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . X X X O O X . X O O O . . |
$$ | . O O X O . X O O . O X . O O X X . . |
$$ | . O X X . . X X O . O X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . O . O X X . O . X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . O X X O . O X . . O O X X . |
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



maybe i can win this :)

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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: 122. Magicwand vs. Kirby
Post #260 Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:06 am 
Judan
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$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . 0 O X . . . O . O . . |
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Either I have completely overlooked something, or he is very persistent.
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