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Offline pancake
 Post subject: Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d
Post #121 Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:02 pm 
Dies with sente
User avatar

Posts: 75
Location: Utrecht, Netherlands
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 6
Rank: EGF 4d
KGS: pancake
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm57 black: 1 white: 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . W . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


I do not like the attachment below. I have to play a afterwards, I don't think exchanging b-c accomplishes anything, since I still have to come back at a and he can play d afterwards.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 black: 1 white: 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . c . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . b X . O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . d 1 W . O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . 2 a 3 . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


So I'm just gonna play like this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 black: 1 white: 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . b . O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . 2 . W 1 . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . a X . . . Q . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Next will probably be the a-b exchange, since a is a very nice move for me. It feels like I'm quite safe here though. Note that, because of my marked move, I don't have to bother about that group anymore. I like being thick everywhere, that's why I played like that.
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Offline Loons
 Post subject: Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d
Post #122 Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:56 pm 
Lives in sente
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Posts: 979
Location: wHam!lton, Aotearoa
Liked others: 187
Was liked: 73
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm59 black: 1 white: 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . W 1 . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Hane or jump?

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Offline pancake
 Post subject: Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d
Post #123 Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 4:08 am 
Dies with sente
User avatar

Posts: 75
Location: Utrecht, Netherlands
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 6
Rank: EGF 4d
KGS: pancake
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm59 black: 1 white: 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . W . O X . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
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Offline Loons
 Post subject: Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d
Post #124 Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 4:30 pm 
Lives in sente
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Posts: 979
Location: wHam!lton, Aotearoa
Liked others: 187
Was liked: 73
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 black: 1 white: 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . W . O X . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

If I were to tenuki, white would get excellent shape here. I'm planning to extend again when he makes a bamboo joint, and aim to get significant territory in the centre-right as he settles.

I'm playing with fire, but my influence is too holey to try and make territory passively.

*Stage centre right, that is. Also, pushing again, causing him to jump seems a bit awful.

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Offline pancake
 Post subject: Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d
Post #125 Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 4:13 am 
Dies with sente
User avatar

Posts: 75
Location: Utrecht, Netherlands
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 6
Rank: EGF 4d
KGS: pancake
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 black: 1 white: 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . W . O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . O . O X . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Exactly as expected in the previous explanation. I wonder how much harm he can do me if he plays something like a.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 black: 1 white: 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . W . O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . O . O X . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . a . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
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Offline Loons
 Post subject: Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d
Post #126 Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 12:17 pm 
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Posts: 979
Location: wHam!lton, Aotearoa
Liked others: 187
Was liked: 73
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm63 black: 1 white: 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . W . O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . O 1 O X . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Playing it while it's 100% sente, probably too early.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm63 black: 1 white: 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . W 2 O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . O 1 O X . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . b . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

With my new influence, playing at 'a' seems perhaps more possible (rather than playing at 'b').

Maybe still not.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm65 (Future possibilities)
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O W O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . O B O X . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X . 0 . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 9 . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . 7 O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 1 3 4 . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O 2 5 X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Maybe 67 directly? 67 at 70?

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Offline Loons
 Post subject: Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d
Post #127 Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 1:04 pm 
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Posts: 979
Location: wHam!lton, Aotearoa
Liked others: 187
Was liked: 73
Updating my count, white still appears to have just over 50 points (and komi) while I have about 50 points, maybe just under. I still have potential (re; my last diagram kind of thing. On reflection I don't really need a big centre left.

Oh, and by way of explaining my last move; it reduces white eyeshape a tiny bit in sente, albeit in exchange for a liberty. If I waited, and white played something like J11, he would answer differently.

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Offline pancake
 Post subject: Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d
Post #128 Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 4:30 am 
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Posts: 75
Location: Utrecht, Netherlands
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 6
Rank: EGF 4d
KGS: pancake
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm63 black: 1 white: 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O W O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . O X O X . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


If I don't, I lose.
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Offline Loons
 Post subject: Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d
Post #129 Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:34 pm 
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Posts: 979
Location: wHam!lton, Aotearoa
Liked others: 187
Was liked: 73
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm65 black: 1 white: 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O W O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . O X O X . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 X X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

It seems white would be too happy to play here instead. Hopefully settling that group will be a burden on pancake's mind?

More thinking:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm65 black: 1 white: 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . x . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . o X . O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . x , . . . o . O W O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . o . O X O X . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 X X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . x . . x . |
$$ | . X . O . O . x . B . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . x O . . . . O B . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O x . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
The 'o's are my idle speculation on where he's going to play for shape. The 'x's are an exhaustive list of non-local moves I'd like to get. How can I use his new-born dragon to get them?

Tenuki at 63 may have been better: though 65 works well with my marked stones I think.

A less active move for 57 may have been better; I was feeling quite demoralised at that point (as you may have noticed) and been needlessly active.

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Offline pancake
 Post subject: Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d
Post #130 Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:48 pm 
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I found out this way it's easier to make a lot of comments. I hope I didn't make to many mistakes in this sgf, it's kinda late for this stuff.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm65 black: 1 white: 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O O O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . W . O X O X . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Attachments:
diagram (8).sgf [1.81 KiB]
Downloaded 25 times
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Offline Loons
 Post subject: Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d
Post #131 Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 3:53 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm67 black: 1 white: 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O O O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . W . O X O X . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 1 X X X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Same move as 63, stopping white playing here himself; also these black stones now have more or less infinite liberties. I'm not entirely sure what white's going to choose to make shape; after he does, I will consider whether it's possible to menace the white group to take a & b; otherwise, I feel like c is probably biggest.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm67 black: 1 white: 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . b . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . a , . . . . . O O O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . W . O X O X . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 1 X X X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . c . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

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Offline lesenv
 Post subject: Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d
Post #132 Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:59 am 
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pancake,

your sgf doesn't work
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Offline hyperpape
 Post subject: Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d
Post #133 Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:52 am 
Oza

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@ lesenv

I used the SGF checker/converter from Arno Hollosi. Hope everything still works.


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Offline pancake
 Post subject: Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d
Post #134 Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:22 am 
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I couldn't get my SGF to work last time, so I'll just attach it so people can download the file.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm67 black: 1 white: 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . W . . X . O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O O O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . O . O X O X . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X X X X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Attachments:
diagram (12).sgf [2.33 KiB]
Downloaded 32 times
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Offline Loons
 Post subject: Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d
Post #135 Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:39 pm 
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I'm a little fraught with indecision. If I had five more points (as well as sente) I would very likely just play passively.

This seems a valuable move anyway. White's choice aims at a driving-esque play against d11 (while making some shape). I expect white to respond again locally showing me how his group will live, which can again advise my next play.

I did consider leading with the push at J9 for fear that whatever white's living move is will take it away, but I felt in this case it would be overzealous (if I seem preoccupied with this sort of move, it's because I was watching some pro games a while ago and it really struck me how they chip away at the eyespace of groups that will have to live while it's sente, and I'm trying to figure that out).

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm69 black: 1 white: 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . W . . X . O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . 1 , . . . . . O O O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . O . O X O X . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X X X X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

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Offline Loons
 Post subject: Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d
Post #136 Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:55 pm 
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Posts: 979
Location: wHam!lton, Aotearoa
Liked others: 187
Was liked: 73
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm69 black: 1 white: 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . W a . X . O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . 5 , . . 3 4 2 O O O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . O 1 O X O X . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X X X X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

(Out of interest, this was my initial sequence (sort-of menacing white white 'a'). On one hand, I can appreciate this way of playing is vulgar, but I also still can't see that this is obviously bad: The reason I dropped it is that it feels like black is straining too hard, rather than it being wrong. If someone can clearly correct my confusion concerning this (just hiddenly), I'd be much obliged.

Edit:
Right, I eventually sort of got there myself; white has a more clearly defined thick shape, and it doesn't introduce any aji that wasn't already there, really. Diagrams later maybe.

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Offline pancake
 Post subject: Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d
Post #137 Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:31 am 
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Posts: 75
Location: Utrecht, Netherlands
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 6
Rank: EGF 4d
KGS: pancake
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm69 black: 1 white: 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . W . . . . . . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . O . . X . O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . O O O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . O . O X O X . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X X X X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


clever move, but I think I'll manage anyway
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Offline Loons
 Post subject: Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d
Post #138 Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:17 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 black: 1 white: 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . W 1 . . . . . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . O . . X . O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . O O O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . O . O X O X . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X X X X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

This atari, because it affects how close to settling the centre group is (I'd like to squeeze some more sente moves out of the centre). However, points-wise this move/area is smaller, so I don't plan to connect after.

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Offline jts
 Post subject: Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d
Post #139 Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:30 pm 
Oza
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@loons

What's going on here? Where are you making territory? Do you still think you can capture m10?
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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d
Post #140 Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:47 pm 
Judan
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jts:
black is playing it correctly for the most parts.
points will come later if you play thick.

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