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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: Red, a Go variant
Post #61 Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:01 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . . . . . X X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . X O O O O O |
$$ | . . X . . X X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X . X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X 3 |
$$ | O O X 2 . . O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]


Haven't the foggiest how those games would turn out, let's finish this thing!!

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Offline illluck
 Post subject: Re: Red, a Go variant
Post #62 Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:28 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . . . . . X X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . X O O O O O |
$$ | . . X . . X X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X . X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X 2 . . O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O . . . . O O 4 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]


I have absolutely no clue either.
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Offline MarkSteere
 Post subject: Re: Red, a Go variant
Post #63 Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:36 pm 
Lives with ko
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[breathlessly awaits placement of first red stone]

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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: Red, a Go variant
Post #64 Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 4:06 pm 
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KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . . . . . X X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . X O O O O O |
$$ | . . X . . X X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X . X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X 2 . . O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O . . . 5 O O 4 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]


Let's have some fun!!

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Offline hyperpape
 Post subject: Re: Red, a Go variant
Post #65 Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 4:53 pm 
Oza

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I'm not sure I understand this game, but I think a would be better than :w62: possibly b also.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . . . . . X X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . X O O O O O |
$$ | . . X . . X X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . a . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X . X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X 2 . . O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O . b . . O O 4 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]
Edit: nevermind: I was reading the wrong line.

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Last edited by hyperpape on Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline illluck
 Post subject: Re: Red, a Go variant
Post #66 Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:18 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . . . . . X X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . X O O O O O |
$$ | . . X . . X X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X . X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X O . . O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O . . 6 5 O O O |
$$ | . . . . . 0 9 7 8 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]


I like fun. Fun is good.
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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: Red, a Go variant
Post #67 Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 7:32 pm 
Tengen
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . . . . . X X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . X O O O O O |
$$ | . . X . . X X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X . X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X O . 2 O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O 5 1 O X O O O |
$$ | . . . . 3 O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 . . . . . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]


If you play :w74: @ :b75:, I'll play the other one.

I have no idea if playing inside like this will help me out in the long run ... I'm hoping it pokes some extra liberties off for capturing, but ??

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Offline illluck
 Post subject: Re: Red, a Go variant
Post #68 Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 7:45 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . . . . . X X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . X O O O O O |
$$ | . . X . . X X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X . X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X O . O O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O O . O X O O O |
$$ | . . . . X + X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]
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Offline Bill Spight
 Post subject: Re: Red, a Go variant
Post #69 Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:02 pm 
Oza

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Err, isn't this the position now?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . . . . . X X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . X O O O O O |
$$ | . . X . . X X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X . X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X O . O O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O + . O X O O O |
$$ | . . . . X O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]

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Offline illluck
 Post subject: Re: Red, a Go variant
Post #70 Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:45 pm 
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Errrr... Right... :oops:

That was pretty fail XD

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . . . . . X X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . X O O O O O |
$$ | . . X . . X X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X 7 X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X O . O O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O + 8 O X O O O |
$$ | . . . . X O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]
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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: Red, a Go variant
Post #71 Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:35 am 
Tengen
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Posts: 4161
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . . . . . X X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . X O O O O O |
$$ | . . X . . X X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X 7 X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X O . O O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O + 8 O X O O O |
$$ | . . . . X O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . 9 . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]


Yeah, that's my :b77: :)

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Offline illluck
 Post subject: Re: Red, a Go variant
Post #72 Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:18 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . . . . . X X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . X O O O O O |
$$ | . . X . . X X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X O . O O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O + O O X O O O |
$$ | . . . . X O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . 0 . X . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]
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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: Red, a Go variant
Post #73 Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:22 am 
Tengen
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . . . . . X X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . X O O O O O |
$$ | . . X . . X X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X O . O O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O + O O X O O O |
$$ | . . . . X O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X a O 1 X . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]


I feel lucky. I was slightly kicking myself for trying to be too clever (playing at "a" and allowing :w80: at :b81: doesn't work, so I figured I'd create an opportunity to rip White off). Although that's a fairly normal Go sequence, the red stone really changes the capture dynamic, and playing one to the left seems more severe, as it creates a snapback using Black's capture (with a red stone) to capture Black. There are some subtle changes in the logic of multi-group captures...

Sequences hidden for brevity, but visible to all:

Sequence 1

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm80 :w80: @ :w82:
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . . . . . X X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . X O O O O O |
$$ | . . X . . X X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X O . O O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O + O O X O O O |
$$ | . . . . X O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X 3 2 . X . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm82 :w82: is a snapback!
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . . . . . X X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . X O O O O O |
$$ | . . X . . X X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X O . O O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O + O O . O O O |
$$ | . . . . X O . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X + + . X . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]


Sequence 2

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm80
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . . . . . X X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . X O O O O O |
$$ | . . X . . X X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X O . O O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O + O O X O O O |
$$ | . . . 3 X O X X O . 6 |
$$ | . . . 5 4 X 2 7 1 X . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm80
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . . . . . X X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . X O O O O O |
$$ | . . X . . X X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X O . O O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O + O O . O O O |
$$ | . . . O . O . . O . X |
$$ | . . . O . . . + O X . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]


Sequence for observers only:

Continuation of this game:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . . . . . X X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . X O O O O O |
$$ | . . X . . X X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X O . O O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O + O O X O O O |
$$ | . . . . X O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X 2 O 1 X . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . . . . . X X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . X O O O O O |
$$ | . . X . . X X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X O . O O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O + O O . O O O |
$$ | . . . . X O . 3 O . 4 |
$$ | . . . . . X + O X X . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . . . . . X X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . X O O O O O |
$$ | . . X . . X X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X O . O O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O + O O . O O O |
$$ | . . . . X O . + O . O |
$$ | . . . . . X + . X X . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]


It's worth bearing in mind here that White needs to fill in internal liberties to capture the lower right Black stones. And :w84: is necessary - if Black plays there, he lives inside (!!) as White can't atari due to his own shortage of liberties, giving Black two complete eyes.

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Offline illluck
 Post subject: Re: Red, a Go variant
Post #74 Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:56 am 
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Yeah, the captures really create weird situations.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . . . . . X X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . X O O O O O |
$$ | . 2 X . . X X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X O . O O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O + O O X O O O |
$$ | . . . . X O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O 1 X . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]
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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: Red, a Go variant
Post #75 Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:08 am 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4161
Location: Chatteris, UK
Liked others: 1431
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Rank: 1d
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KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . . . . . X X O . O . |
$$ | . 3 . . . X O O O O O |
$$ | . 2 X . . X X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X O . O O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O + O O X O O O |
$$ | . . . . X O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O 1 X . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]

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Offline luigi
 Post subject: Re: Red, a Go variant
Post #76 Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:57 am 
Dies with sente

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topazg wrote:
Sequences hidden for brevity, but visible to all:

Sequence 1

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm80 :w80: @ :w82:
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . . . . . X X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . X O O O O O |
$$ | . . X . . X X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X O . O O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O + O O X O O O |
$$ | . . . . X O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X 3 2 . X . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]


Remember that captures are simultaneous in Redstone. :b81: would capture the three-stone Black group too.

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Sum ergo non ero.

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Offline illluck
 Post subject: Re: Red, a Go variant
Post #77 Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:58 am 
Lives in sente

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . . . . . X X O . O . |
$$ | . X O . . X O O O O O |
$$ | . O X . . X X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X O . O O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O + O O X O O O |
$$ | . . . . X O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O X X . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]
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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: Red, a Go variant
Post #78 Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:01 am 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4161
Location: Chatteris, UK
Liked others: 1431
Was liked: 573
Rank: 1d
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . . . . . X X O . O . |
$$ | . X O 5 . X O O O O O |
$$ | . O X 7 . X X X O X . |
$$ | . . 6 . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X O . O O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O + O O X O O O |
$$ | . . . . X O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O X X . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . . . . . X X O . O . |
$$ | . X O 5 . X O O O O O |
$$ | . O X 6 . X X X O X . |
$$ | . . 7 . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X O . O O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O + O O X O O O |
$$ | . . . . X O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O X X . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]


Whichever you prefer :)

_________________
My Go videos | My Go Teaching Ladder (GTL) reviews
I also offer Go teaching lessons
-- Creator of OGS --
"I played a trick play and my opponent fell for it, unfortunately he didn't know the correct followup, so I died"
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Offline illluck
 Post subject: Re: Red, a Go variant
Post #79 Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:01 am 
Lives in sente

Posts: 914
Liked others: 425
Was liked: 130
Rank: OGS 2k
KGS: illluck
Tygem: Trickprey
OGS: illluck
Goodie, I love choices <3

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . . 8 . . X X O . O . |
$$ | . X O X . X O O O O O |
$$ | . O X O . X X X O X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X O . O O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O + O O X O O O |
$$ | . . . . X O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O X X . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]
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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: Red, a Go variant
Post #80 Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:43 am 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4161
Location: Chatteris, UK
Liked others: 1431
Was liked: 573
Rank: 1d
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . . 8 9 . X X O . O . |
$$ | . X O X . X O O O O O |
$$ | . O X O . X X X O X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X O . O O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O + O O X O O O |
$$ | . . . . X O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O X X . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]


Well, this is going to be an interesting shape. You playing for this?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ -------------------------
$$ | . a 8 9 . X X O . O . |
$$ | 0 X O X . X O O O O O |
$$ | . O X O . X X X O X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X O O X O X |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X X X |
$$ | O O X O . O O O X X O |
$$ | . O O O + O O X O O O |
$$ | . . . . X O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O X X . |
$$ -------------------------[/go]


If so, I'll play at "a", capturing three stones

_________________
My Go videos | My Go Teaching Ladder (GTL) reviews
I also offer Go teaching lessons
-- Creator of OGS --
"I played a trick play and my opponent fell for it, unfortunately he didn't know the correct followup, so I died"
Top
 Profile  
 
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