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 Post subject: Re: When to resign?
Post #21 Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 8:49 am 
Lives with ko

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What i meant by "trick" was that kind of wishful thinking that people have at a beginner level.

I say this because there are plenty of times beginners will throw stones into a large relatively solid piece of territory (or corner) and just hope for the best. If you ask them "what were you thinking playing in here?" the response is usually "oh i don't know, i wanted to see what happened"

I'm not saying its a bad thing but if the go game de-evolves into something like that and you think you're behind, just finish up the game and start a new one.

Obviously this advice wouldn't apply to someone of a higher rank but being in the beginner forum i think it was reasonably ok advice.

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 Post subject: Re: When to resign?
Post #22 Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:18 am 
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peti29 wrote:
It once happened to me that my opponent didn't want to accept that L in the corner was dead. So we played it out and I forgot to eliminate KO threats beforehand so it lived and I lost. But at least I learned my lesson and I will not forget that again.


Under Japanese rules, bent L in the corner is dead. Any testing of if a group is dead or not takes place in a hypothetical branch where only allowed ko threat is pass. As such, your opponent violated a couple of rules to get that win.

Then again, if you used Chinese rules, this doesn't matter and you just lost because you misread. But considering how popular it is to use Japanese rules, I'm thinking it's more likely that it was a case of several rule violations in a row.

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 Post subject: Re: When to resign?
Post #23 Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:22 am 
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- If you want to win, don't resign - there are surprisingly many opportunities to come back. You may not make yourself very popular this way, but on the other hand there is an abundance of jerks online and it helps to temporarily be one yourself in order to deal with them later.
- If you want to learn, then as a beginner don't resign, because there is a lot to learn, even when a position looks bad. Controlling your emotions, for one thing. As a more experienced player, when you know there is really no way to come back and all opportunities to learn in this game, are lost, well of course ...
- If you want to have fun, resign whenever the game isn't fun anymore. However, you may develop a lack of fighting spirit this way. In my opinion, being soft is not fun.
- If you want to be popular, resign early. However, I don't see how online popularity is something to aim for.

I'm not with those who recommend to resign when you want, not because I want to moralize, but because there's so much frustration out there of players who feel their results are not up to their level. Stop resigning and developing some fighting spirit, is a first step to remove that frustration.

I'm als not with those who think resigning is a very important skill, because the pros know when to resign. There are many more skills to learn than when to resign. Resigning early is depriving you of many opportunities to learn: controlling emotions, positional judgment, coming back, putting pressure, finding weaknesses, when liberties become scarce, end game intricacies, re-evaluating the life of groups ... If anything, err at the rude side and don't resign. It will also teach you how to deal with those who never resign.

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 Post subject: Re: When to resign?
Post #24 Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:20 pm 
Oza

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Knotwilg wrote:
Resigning early is depriving you of many opportunities to learn: controlling emotions, positional judgment, coming back, putting pressure, finding weaknesses, when liberties become scarce, end game intricacies, re-evaluating the life of groups ... If anything, err at the rude side and don't resign. It will also teach you how to deal with those who never resign.
The most important question is: what is the opportunity cost? Will you learn more from playing on in lost games, or in starting a new game?

But to back up, perhaps we don't disagree. My criterion for when to resign is when the game can be straightforwardly won by my opponent, in an almost mechanical way. It's not enough that I'm at a disadvantage in a fight, it has to be easy for my opponent to kill me, or to play it safe, or so on. I see no value in gambling that this will be the one time in 50 that someone puts themselves in atari.

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 Post subject: Re: When to resign?
Post #25 Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:15 pm 
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Quick and easy guide: If you don't know whether or not you should resign, don't.

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 Post subject: Re: When to resign?
Post #26 Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:39 am 
Judan

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hyperpape wrote:
I see no value in gambling that this will be the one time in 50 that someone puts themselves in atari.


Indeed. However, even 5 kyus miss protective plays in one game in 50. DDKs often do. DDKs should never resign, and should always fill the dame.

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 Post subject: Re: When to resign?
Post #27 Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:45 am 
Judan

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Knotwilg wrote:
I'm als not with those who think resigning is a very important skill, because the pros know when to resign.


Oh, I think that it takes skill to know when to resign, more skill than most kyu players have. :)

Besides, you don't develop skill in resigning by resigning. Practice does not make perfect in this area. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: When to resign?
Post #28 Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:48 am 
Judan

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often wrote:
What i meant by "trick" was that kind of wishful thinking that people have at a beginner level.

I say this because there are plenty of times beginners will throw stones into a large relatively solid piece of territory (or corner) and just hope for the best. If you ask them "what were you thinking playing in here?" the response is usually "oh i don't know, i wanted to see what happened"


Sounds to me like a good attitude for a beginner. :)

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