What's your opinion of the level of the book?

I would say single digit kyu to low dan it would be interesting for. Double digit kyu could gain a lot but have to spend more effort with the variations.

Hi oren, is it part of the Seattle Go Center's library, or how did you chance upon this book ?

I make semi-regular orders from amazon.co.jp for interesting looking books.

So sujiba = non-nose, in old money? But the teaching point is about bad shape (lack of expansion of liberties), rather than a heuristic about good shape (if liberties matter, add two not one)??

There are explanations using sujiba about lines that create good shape rather than bad shape. The best lines create good shape for both, but the goal is first to avoid bad shape for yourself. He does also discuss the times that making the bad shape is correct play and why.

No, not quite, because the empty inside point in an empty triangle is not a sujiba (it was until the offending extra stone was added).



Again, no. From memory, I don't think he refers to good shape in his blog, and I think the only time he refers to bad shape is when he talks about the empty triangle proverb. What he does talk about repeatedly - the teaching point - is efficiency of stones, i.e. doing work (hataraki). This is a reprise of the old discussion about westerners fixating on static good shape when orientals have dynamic nuances uppermost (hataraku being a verb, of course). He redefines tesuji in terms of sujiba and again (unlike westerners who see a tesuji as a static brilliant move) stresses correctly the dynamic "way of playing" meaning. I can't remember the full definition, I'm afraid, and I'm feeling lazy.

Ed Lee was sniffy about the marketing hype. Probably rightly so, but it might be worth pointing out that Yoda now spends a lot of time teaching children in a school he set up a short walk from his house. He's got his two eldest boys - elementary school children - up to 7-dan and 5-dan, and he has bigger plans for the youngest boy as he intends to start him earlier then the others (it's common in the go and shogi worlds for the youngest child to become the strongest when all play, Go Seigen being the classic example). Anyway, my point is that Yoda genuinely thinking about teaching is, and something about it he may discovered have. I await the book to see whether the force really is with him.

This is wonderful.

Really? I would think that the warning against playing there would still apply, if not with added force.

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He calls it double sujiba, and it is worse than normal.

Does it follow that (a) is quad-sujiba or sujiba⁴ :

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B
$$ . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . .
$$ . . X X X . .
$$ . . X a X . .
$$ . . X X X . .
$$ . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . .[/go]

Skipping (b), tri-sujiba or sujiba³ :

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B
$$ . . . . . .
$$ . . X X . .
$$ . . b X . .
$$ . . X X . .
$$ . . . . . .[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B sujiba?
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . O 1 X X X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

OK, I might be getting there. is not worthwhile in terms of liberties. The black chain goes up from eight to nine, which is a "so what?" result.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B OK
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . O . . . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 1 X X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Quite different here, where is typically fine. There is no gain in liberties, but clearly the play is much more effective.

Effectiveness and efficiency are two different things. Yoda mentioned only efficiency. He also, as I recall, made no mention (or just a passing one) of liberties.

You could try looking at his blog. There are four decent-sized articles replete with diagrams, which I suspect you could follow without text.

I did think of naughtily translating the blog, relying on the grounds it would help sales of his book, but there is not enough life in this forum any more to justify that. Also, I'd prefer to wait until my copy of the book arrives.

In quest of said articles, I found the Japanese Wikipedia page on Yoda:

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E4%BE%9D ... 0%E5%9F%BA

With a simple tachi example for sujiba , not a million miles from the first one above. That text is CC-by-SA, anyway. The blog is in the external links, but I didn't immediately understand the navigation.

A combinatorial explanation would cut through the linguistic difficulties,

I think you would get more out of http://kisei.yomiuri.co.jp/column/shinan_yoda/01.htm and the three subsequent pages.



For me the linguistic difficulty there is that I haven't the remotest idea what you are talking about.

We each have our own ways of researching, and thinking out loud.

I was happy just to get the kanji from the section title. Led me to a Youtube video of Yoda commenting on shape in a pro game; and his Twitter feed. Google Translate is a bit hazardous, but I now understand "useless clogging" FWIW.

To cover the connection between making empty triangles and liberties, here is a fairly generic chain. Let's hope I get this right.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B Sujiba?
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . a a . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X a . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . a b . X b . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . a X X X X a . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . a X b b a . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Some of the liberties of the chain, those marked "a", are such that Black on playing them makes a new empty triangle. The "b" points make two empty triangles in three of the cases. There is a quibble about one of the "b" points, because it fills in an empty triangle, or moves it one to the right, however you look at it.

The "a" points add a liberty. The "b" points do not add a liberty.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B Other points
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . c X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . d X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . X X X X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . c. . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

The remaining liberties are of type "c" and "d". The type "c" is what I would call a nose point. Type "d" is the sort of abject play that adds no liberties to the chain: it in fact loses one, the point on which it is played. That is in contrast to the plays at "c" that add two.

So far so good. Without too much ado, plays that "create an empty triangle" are those that add at most one liberty?

To continue the thought, I imagine a tutorial game could be set up, involving chains of both colours and their shared liberties. This is to emphasise the aspect of "struggle for liberties" hinted at above.

I don't have time to research background right now, but I'm pretty sure the game aspect is not that new.

Anyway, imagine that points A, B, C, ... are on a go board and are empty but adjacent to a black chain and a white chain. The players play them out in turn, and then count their total liberties.

The strategy is clearly to start with the "best" plays. Each point P falls into one of four or five classes as above, considered just for one colour. Actually there are probably more. For tutorial purposes one wouldn't try to be exhaustive, but to set up instructive examples.

So ... this is on-topic for DDKs learning about shape. And I'm pretty sure it is related to core elements of what Yoda is talking about, but coming from a different perspective, naturally.

Curious abiut アキ三角 -- seems to be the empty triangle.

A quick search: アキ三角 = 空き三角...

It is empty triangle.