Awesome advice for pretty much any pursuit!

You can do it also the other way round: First have fun, a nice chat/drink and then lose all games on the next day's tournament, as I just practised on last weekend

This is very common (and I include myself).

http://senseis.xmp.net/?OnlineGoAnxiety (in general, wandering around Sensei's Library is good for getting a feeling of what the topics in Go are anyway.)

http://lifein19x19.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11114 (recent thread on here about OGA)



You may be surprised. I have been playing now for a couple of years, only on OGS, and haven't had a bad experience yet. This is not to say it doesn't happen! Just that it may well not.



I am still in search of my hundredth loss (right now I have 87, though a couple more are definitely coming to a conclusion). While it's true that maybe I am having too much fun, and it's very likely indeed that I am not improving at the optimal rate for my admittely limited talent, I am still gradually getting better and learning things. It's only a little bit frustrating

Seriously, it's possible to take all that advice too literally. It may even be meant literally. But your go experience is yours, do it how you want.

I would advise starting to play against humans online though. The awesome thing about the rating system is that it will quickly get you games you have a chance to win and a chance to lose... losing might make you better faster, but winning is also worthwhile. Good luck!

[edit: FWIW, I don't think "Lose your first hundred games as quickly as possible" is meant literally. I think it's more a way of saying, the learning curve is steep, and the learning curve is incredibly high, playing is the best way to learn and the world is full of stronger players - but don't feel bad about it, it's all good.]

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Confucius in the Analects says "even playing go is better than eating chips in front of tv all day." -- kivi

What kept my interest going in the early stages of Go is not actually winning, or even capturing groups, but the satisfaction of keeping a group alive by forming two eyes. The book Go For Beginners by Kaoru Iwamoto helped a lot here. Once I learned how to form two eyes to protect a group my confidence increased a lot in a game. There was a satisfying element of defiance about it. "I may have lost the game by points, bit at least you didn't capture my groups! Ha!"

Since then I have become a bit braver, but that hedgehog mentality certainly helped me in the first months.

I think people take the proverb much too literally. To me, the saying "lose your first 100 games" contains two pieces of very loose advice, really...

The first piece of advice is:
You need to play around 100 games to start some kind of understanding. Of course, this number is different for different people, and some start "getting" it after 10 games. Some have good teacher and starte "getting" it immediately.

The second piece of advice is:
Do not worry about winning or losing, just play to learn. If you make peace with the fact that you will lose all these games, you will not get discouraged by the many losses. But if you happen to win, het - that's a bonus. Still, since you are a beginner, you will lose more than you win, and you have to be prepared for that.

So, overall, I would say it means: play a lot of games and don't worry about winning or losing, just enjoy.
I think it is a sound advice.

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- Bantari
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WARNING: This post might contain Opinions!!

Well, I am still playing this game, but it is definitely a love-hate relationship. Learn to Play Go, vols 1 and 2 helped somewhat. Of course, I almost never actually apply the concepts from the books because I don't see them on the board. I feel like lessons with a real human being would be by far the best way to learn, but of course that's not going to happen. I play against the computer with enough of a handicap that I actually have a chance to win. I am amazed by all the comments about not caring about winning or losing. So you guys don't care whether you win or lose? There's no way I'm going to believe that.

For what it's worth, I'm actually not an idiot. But this game sure makes me feel like one.

I care about winning, and it hurts to lose. But you can learn from that pain, and try to figure out how to make it not happen again (or at least less).

Failing is fine, but the key is to learn and improve from it. Otherwise, what are you doing?

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be immersed

So that's about the learning curve. You do need some handholds to clamber up.

Why not? If you're willing to learn over the internet, there are any number of people who would be happy to help. I'm not an expert go teacher, but I'd be happy to give you a few lessons if we can arrange a suitable time and you think it would help.


I can't speak for others, but I care about whether I win or lose. But losing is an inevitable part of the game, and I can take pleasure from a good game even if I don't win. Losing too much (or for poor reasons) can certainly throw me into a funk, though. In that case, it can be best to step away from the game for a little while so I don't descend into a spiral where my bad attitude causes me to lose more.

Dear dmpeyton,

I myself started to play not so long ago. What I noticed is that, as a new player, you need to grow brand new intuition. In my opinion, as a beginner you should split your time 50/50 between studying (first), and trying to apply the concepts you practiced during your study in games. Note that I say "practiced", not "read about". I am a firm believer of learning by doing.

This method works really well for me, because I start to recognize in my games the patterns that I learned during practice: I feel myself improving! Two games ago, I killed a group by using a throw-in for the first time in my career. I went on to win the game, as 9x9's are determined by small things, but I was completely happy about recognizing that I could capture some stones with this technique. Moment like these are what makes Go fun for me. And this is, I think, at the same time the fastest way to improve: You don't focus on short term results (winning a game), but you are in it for the long haul.

That being said, I do enjoy winning just as much as the next guy. ;)

My first concrete advice for you is the following:

• Play games against humans! I have yet to encounter the first ill-meaning opponent. Be nice to your opponents, make friends, look at some variation together after the game. This is fun and you will learn! (Inevitably, some people are a-holes. Some might just have a bad day. Ignore them and look for a new, positive person to play with.)
• Don't focus on winning, but on applying in the game the concept that you learned during practice/study. (At some point I told myself: "I can do whatever I want this game, but I am going to start at a 3-3 point and darn-it: that stone will be the first stone of a living group!")

But most importantly:

• I really want to recommend this website from the Dutch Go association (it has pages in English as well): http://www.321go.org. It introduces concepts slowly, and has tons of exercises so you can learn to see the patterns. Really, I think most people tend to study too complex material too fast. Start with the basics, learn them to a level where you do not only understand them, but to the level that you can apply them (i.e. by doing)! Then you can make a coupling between practice and your games.

If you want to play on OGS, send me a message! :)


Have Fun! :D

EDIT: An addendum. When I get completely wrecked a few games in a row, I do feel demotivated. Especially if I already was tired to begin with. I learned that I should simply stop playing that moment. In a bad mind-set, it's much more difficult to think creatively. I will lose and I will feel like it was inevitable. And then, my mood will be even worse. Only play when you have a positive mind-set, otherwise no good will come from it. ;)

Congrats.

Thanks again for all the helpful comments! I am playing humans online now. Guess what happens....I lose!

Any time that I get in a fight, I always lose. I am trying to play moves like there are in the books. You know, corner enclosure, extensions, approach, stuff like that. My opponents will have none of that. They attack. We fight. I lose. It's as simple as that. I'm pretty hooked now, so I think I'll keep playing. But this can't go on forever. I know my own personality, and I am certainly a glutton for punishment if there ever was one. But we all have our limits!

By the way, I appreciate the offers but I won't be taking any lessons from anyone because I'm not big on wasting other people's time. Thanks though!

Ugh...still frustrated.

Do you try to review your games afterwards?
Try to focus on finding and correcting only one or two common mistakes you catch yourself making each time.

It's not you to decide if someone else is wasting their time. For many of us, helping a weaker player see what is going on in a go game is just as much of a challenge and just as interesting as actually playing a game.

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Patience, grasshopper.

You seem to be missing an important step though! If you feel like you did it 'right', but your opponent still won the fight: you probably made a mistake in your response. So stop banging your head against a wall by playing and losing another game, but review your game first. Look for the move that would have saved your group / defended your territory / whatever it is that went wrong.

And guess what! After you understood the mistake and you found a decent alternative, and making the mistake in a game and finding the mistake in review some 10 more times... The 11th time, while your mouse moves to the field to make the same mistake again, you will suddenly feel uneasy about what you are going to do. You might still do it a few times, but every time that feeling (a very physical feeling for me personally) gets worse. And then, at some point, you consciously make the right move! And then you have a party because you went 1up.

The point is though: It works to play deliberately. When I play a 9x9, I play with 15min+5x30s, and I hear the count-down almost every game. And after the game, I review the game: I look for the move where it went wrong and try to find a better alternative. Sometimes I ask my opponent what I should have done differently, and many times they will actually help me out.

Which leads to my two conclusions:

• Identify your mistakes to increase your conscious and subconscious understanding of the game.
• Ask others for help or guidance with this process.

And trust me: There are a lot of people (myself included) that actually enjoy helping others out. It feels nice to help someone else, and it shows for themselves how much they have learned. And who are you to decide that others don't wish to interact with you? They are perfectly able to decide that for themselves. Just ask! Just remember to say 'Thank you!'.


P.S. Did you do the exercises? Do the exercises.


Ai, xed_over beat me to it with a much more efficient post. Still posting it though, since I spent 20 minutes to write this.

Also: Thanks EdLee!

Argh! And daal as well!

Post a game - I suspect that most people here enjoy giving reviews - particularly if you are keen to improve at the game.

Ps - because I didn't see anyone else mention it - YouTube
Eg:
https://m.youtube.com/user/nicksibicky

I have started doing that, and it is definitely helpful. I can usually find what went wrong in the fight, and what I could have done differently. Of course, I just go and lose the next one too! But I am getting used to that. This is a game where I just lose. That's how it works. It is possible that I may win at some point in the future. Not likely, but possible. I do get some territory. I don't end up with zero territory, so I must be doing something right.



That's a fair point, but just trust me on this.



Yes! Thank you so much for that suggestion. I worked through the easy ones pretty quickly, and I haven't had time yet to get to the more difficult areas. You are right that this website is much more beginner friendly than anything else I have seen.



I'm not terribly keen on embarrassing myself. I guess I might at some point when I'm not making so many incredibly stupid mistakes. You know, the ones where you guys would think "Uh, dude, a three-year old could have seen that plain as day. Is there brain matter inside that sphere above your shoulders?" This is how I talk to myself when I play go.

I'm a daily user of youtube so I have been checking out videos, but I don't always have time to watch the longer ones. I really like the ones by Jonathan Hop.

I can definitely see why playing the computer is not so helpful. It really tends to play the same way in every game, whereas playing humans is totally unpredictable. It's clearly more efficient to build skills that way.

I know that you are supposed to play big moves when you can. You know, extensions along the side and corner enclosures and approaches and stuff. I try to leave a corner as soon as possible to do that, but usually my opponent just keeps on playing in the same place. So then they are a move ahead of me. RIP, stones.

This is a thought process that needs to change. We were all beginners once. In fact, if you want to see some of my early games where I made the "uh...what's this?" mistakes, they're available on KGS. I still make terrible mistakes. But that's why we review games and figure out what went wrong, so we can change it.

You should approach it with a positive attitude. "Hey, I'm going to make mistakes, and that's okay, because I can learn from my mistakes. But I'm going to do my best, and let's see what happens." Focusing on the negative will only cause paralysis, and you won't be able to enjoy an incredible game (and I sense it'll extend to the rest of your life as well).

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Go Books

Hi peyton,

When you feel more comfortable about it, get a game review.