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 Post subject: What's the best way to learn a lot of Joseki?
Post #1 Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 9:25 pm 
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So I got an app called BW-joseki and it's very cool and helpful. But there are just so many joseki! Any advice on good ways to commit them to memory? At least the most important ones (which still seems like a lot. I'd be thankful for any suggestions.

Edit: I'm assuming pulling out your phone to check joseki every other move is kind of not cool.

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 Post subject: Re: What's the best way to learn a lot of Joseki?
Post #2 Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:34 pm 
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If you're trying to improve: don't memorize joseki. Study joseki when you get a bad result in a game. Most of your opponents won't know the joseki, so if you memorize joseki but don't understand it, you'll get into trouble when your opponent deviates.

As a DDK (and SDK, imo), there's only a few joseki you need to "memorize." They're pretty simple, only a few moves each, and its fairly easy to understand them after learning some tesuji and basic shapes.
  • 3-3 invasion
  • 4-4 approach, slide, and extension
  • 4-4 approach and pincer
  • 3-4 high approach (flexible)

Instead, you're better off studying tesuji and tsumego. Strength in tesuji will help you understand joseki when you're much stronger (I still don't think I'm there yet...). And there's a plus to tesuji/tsumego - it'll help you in the middle game to fight, which is far more important. Don't be afraid to play moves you don't know - try a low approach to the 3-4 corner, or try a double approach if pincered at the 4-4, then you can study the joseki after a bad result to a game.

If you want to study joseki for fun, no issues (we're all doing this for a hobby anyways). But joseki knowledge won't improve strength. There's a common proverb: Memorizing joseki makes you 3 stones weaker.

And checking your phone for joseki during games won't help you improve, and may aggravate your opponent if playing across the table. Reminds me of Kimihiro from Hikaru no Go.

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 Post subject: Re: What's the best way to learn a lot of Joseki?
Post #3 Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:37 pm 
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Usually it's easier to memorize joseki after you encounter a situation in your own game which makes you frustrated. But then it's also not just a matter of memorizing joseki in order to improve your game but more important is the idea of studying a joseki to find the reasoning behind each move of the sequence and why such is considered joseki. Else when your opponent plays moves which are not joseki, you may feel frustrated in not knowing how to answer the moves. Furthermore, please remember that some sequences which are considered joseki at one time may become outdated and replaced with newer sequences as joseki. Also notice that many times, the shapes you encounter in joseki may be useful in other areas of the board from time to time.

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 Post subject: Re: What's the best way to learn a lot of Joseki?
Post #4 Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:28 pm 
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sparky314 wrote:

And checking your phone for joseki during games won't help you improve, and may aggravate your opponent if playing across the table. Reminds me of Kimihiro from Hikaru no Go.


Lol that's exactly what I was thinking of.

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Post #5 Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 12:35 am 
Judan
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Quote:
I'm assuming pulling out your phone to check joseki every other move is kind of not cool.
It's kind of not cool. :blackeye:
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 Post subject: Re: What's the best way to learn a lot of Joseki?
Post #6 Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 2:19 am 
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For a 20+ kyu, the best way to study joseki is to become 7+ ranks stronger and then study the go theory underlying josekis. Understanding enables memorisation of sequences. At 20k, you only need to know a dozen of simple standard josekis and a dozen of strong shape components.

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 Post subject: Re: What's the best way to learn a lot of Joseki?
Post #7 Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 11:25 am 
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I agree with Robert.
Do you want to move up too fast? Understanding will grow as you play more often.

Also, try to think how you want to (have as much fun) study. By using an app, a book, browsing this forum, using dedicated websites like josekipedia or dailyjoseki, yes or no combined with your beautiful board next to the screen?
BW-joseki is indeed a very nice app. Regarding apps: I also like GoMoves (Android) to see openings (not to study, just a quick view to get a feel).

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 Post subject: Re: What's the best way to learn a lot of Joseki?
Post #8 Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 11:29 am 
Judan

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In my experience, stuff is easier to remember when it seems cool or important.

So you can think of joseki as tools to use to gain an advantage if your opponent plays wrong.

So try to learn a few tools, then try them.

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 Post subject: Re: What's the best way to learn a lot of Joseki?
Post #9 Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 9:07 pm 
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tchan001 wrote:
Usually it's easier to memorize joseki after you encounter a situation in your own game which makes you frustrated.



This is great advice because by default it targets areas you are weak and focuses on shapes that actually appear in games you play. What's more you are already at least somewhat familiar with what can go wrong when you deviate from the recommended move!

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