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| Curious position http://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=19314 |
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| Author: | Gérard TAILLE [ Tue Nov 07, 2023 10:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Curious position |
dany wrote: Gérard TAILLE wrote: Oops you are again and again right Dany, I modified my position at the last moment (in order to try and avoid dual solution) but it was not a good idea. Here is my previous version. Area counting, komi 5.5 Does this position work Dany? I continue to be optimistic but I am not as strong as you  I'm not sure, but it doesn't seem to work I am waiting for your sentence.  I assume you study first yourself, and you will later checked with katago? |
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| Author: | dany [ Wed Nov 08, 2023 6:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Curious position |
Gérard TAILLE wrote: dany wrote: Gérard TAILLE wrote: Oops you are again and again right Dany, I modified my position at the last moment (in order to try and avoid dual solution) but it was not a good idea. Here is my previous version. Area counting, komi 5.5 Does this position work Dany? I continue to be optimistic but I am not as strong as you I'm not sure, but it doesn't seem to work I am waiting for your sentence. I assume you study first yourself, and you will later checked with katago? I assumed that this would not work and katago seemed to confirm this P.S. imho this kind of problem is difficult to analyze without a katago |
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| Author: | Gérard TAILLE [ Wed Nov 08, 2023 7:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Curious position |
Area counting, komi 5.5 Dany, because you seem to think that black cannot win let's try a cooperation between us in order to discover the right sequence. Do you agree that I try to play with black while you take white stones? OC, it will be very interesting if you can use katago to help us. |
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| Author: | Gérard TAILLE [ Sat Nov 11, 2023 2:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Curious position |
Area counting, komi 5.5 I guess such problem could be quite difficult for a go program for several reasons: firstly it takes advantage of the rule used (here an area counting), secondly the sending 3 - return 1 configuration is a loop not easy to handled, and thirdly a (strange) seki is never easy to find without exploring a long sequence. In addition go programs are often optimized for "natural" positions and not for "special" positions like the one above. Does somebody know if katago is able to resolve this problem? BTW what is your feeling concerning the strength of a player able to solve such position within some minutes? |
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| Author: | dany [ Tue Nov 14, 2023 6:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Curious position |
Gérard TAILLE wrote: Area counting, komi 5.5 Dany, because you seem to think that black cannot win let's try a cooperation between us in order to discover the right sequence. Do you agree that I try to play with black while you take white stones? OC, it will be very interesting if you can use katago to help us. Now I think everything is fine with this problem. Black wins by 0.5 point. |
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| Author: | dany [ Thu Nov 16, 2023 11:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Curious position |
dany wrote: Area counting. Komi 16.5 Modification Area counting. Komi 6.5 |
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| Author: | Gérard TAILLE [ Thu Nov 16, 2023 1:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Curious position |
dany wrote: Area counting. Komi 6.5 This modification changes a little the idea because I looked for an initial position that was an end position for japanese rules. Anyway let's me try to defend the position with white. I propose to begin with: |
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| Author: | dany [ Thu Nov 16, 2023 2:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Curious position |
dany wrote: Area counting. Komi 6.5 Gérard TAILLE wrote: This modification changes a little the idea because I looked for an initial position that was an end position for japanese rules. Anyway let's me try to defend the position with white. I propose to begin with: Oops! I missed that. Black can't win. Gérard TAILLE wrote: Black win
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| Author: | Gérard TAILLE [ Thu Nov 16, 2023 3:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Curious position |
dany wrote: dany wrote: Area counting. Komi 6.5 Gérard TAILLE wrote: This modification changes a little the idea because I looked for an initial position that was an end position for japanese rules. Anyway let's me try to defend the position with white. I propose to begin with: Oops! I missed that. Black can't win. Gérard TAILLE wrote: Black win Yes Dany that was my point. The exchange in the lower left corner is losing for white (this position was already seen previously) but by playing  in the upper right corner white wins.
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| Author: | dany [ Thu Nov 16, 2023 4:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Curious position |
Gérard TAILLE wrote: dany wrote: dany wrote: Area counting. Komi 6.5 Gérard TAILLE wrote: This modification changes a little the idea because I looked for an initial position that was an end position for japanese rules. Anyway let's me try to defend the position with white. I propose to begin with: Oops! I missed that. Black can't win. Gérard TAILLE wrote: Black win Yes Dany that was my point. The exchange in the lower left corner is losing for white (this position was already seen previously) but by playing in the upper right corner white wins.Area counting. Komi 6.5 fixed modification |
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| Author: | Gérard TAILLE [ Fri Nov 17, 2023 6:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Curious position |
dany wrote: I am not sure it works Dany. and now white can sacrifice the upper left corner against the bottom right corner, without using the bottom left corner. |
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| Author: | dany [ Fri Nov 17, 2023 8:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Curious position |
Gérard TAILLE wrote: dany wrote: I am not sure it works Dany. and now white can sacrifice the upper left corner against the bottom right corner, without using the bottom left corner. I don't understand what you're talking about |
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| Author: | Gérard TAILLE [ Fri Nov 17, 2023 9:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Curious position |
dany wrote: |
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| Author: | dany [ Fri Nov 17, 2023 9:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Curious position |
Gérard TAILLE wrote: dany wrote: And Black 64 points, White 57 points. B+0.5 |
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| Author: | Gérard TAILLE [ Fri Nov 17, 2023 10:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Curious position |
dany wrote: And Black 64 points, White 57 points. B+0.5 Oh I see. When you proposed the above modification I noticed the modifcation in the upper left corenr but not the one in the center. Sorry Dany. |
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