It is currently Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:33 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: How to defend?
Post #1 Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 2:22 am 
Beginner

Posts: 6
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 1
Rank: OGS 6k
In a recent game (and in games before) I got into this situation:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c This is a label for the diagram.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . Y . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O . . . X . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



This position arises if I follow the moves on josekipedia where black even makes the mistake at F3. But I dont know how to respond to the triangled move. Should I maybe just connect at E5 or is there a better way to connect or can I somehow exploit the weakness of blacks stones to counterattack first?

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: How to defend?
Post #2 Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 2:30 am 
Oza

Posts: 3843
Location: Cambridge, UK
Liked others: 131
Was liked: 1860
Rank: UK 4 dan
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
e5?! No way. Here are a few ideas:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . Y . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O . . . X . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . Y 1 . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O . . . X . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . Y . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O . . . X . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


However, if none of these appeal and this peep makes you sad then don't let black play it. Instead of solid connect on the previous move you could play this looser connection which has better eyeshape to the centre. The main downside versus the solid connection is that if black captures a single stone at a white should fall back at b rather than being able to atari and close the side with c, but as black has a strong position on the lower side this is a boring area so white is happy here.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . 1 . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O b . . X . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . X O a c . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This post by Uberdude was liked by 3 people: Drew, joellercoaster, Shawn Ligocki
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: How to defend?
Post #3 Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 4:01 am 
Beginner

Posts: 6
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 1
Rank: OGS 6k
Thanks for the answer! Concerning the first three variations: Am I right in assuming that white doesnt necessarily need to connect, not even later? Connecting might be good later but if the fight is good for white, he doesnt need to. So its more flexible?


This post by splittingfield was liked by: lightvector
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: How to defend?
Post #4 Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 5:27 am 
Oza

Posts: 3843
Location: Cambridge, UK
Liked others: 131
Was liked: 1860
Rank: UK 4 dan
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
splittingfield wrote:
Thanks for the answer! Concerning the first three variations: Am I right in assuming that white doesnt necessarily need to connect, not even later? Connecting might be good later but if the fight is good for white, he doesnt need to. So its more flexible?


White would normally connect eventually in this sort of shape, the idea is to first make some beneficial exchanges and make black's peep stones a bit heavy before defending (because if you just defend immediately and then later try to make those exchanges black might ignore, and then your defence move was unnecessary), so this kind of thing:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O 5 Y 2 4 . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O O . . a . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O . . . X . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Seeing as black has a strong group on the lower side, but his left side stone is attackable later probably attach this side makes more sense. Black's peep stones here are not so amazing, for example you can split them from the lower side whilst running out with a later. White's shape is rather poor too though so I would probably prefer that lighter connection of my last diagram.

In some positions it is possible to never connect and let black cut you and just fight it out. This is particularly appropriate in handicap games against the sort of weak and submissive players who do that lower left sequence: they are likely to be bad at fighting so you can bully them, but such play is not really proper against an equally skilled opponent.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: How to defend?
Post #5 Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:31 am 
Beginner

Posts: 6
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 1
Rank: OGS 6k
Thanks again!

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: How to defend?
Post #6 Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 9:19 am 
Judan

Posts: 5974
Liked others: 1381
Was liked: 2302
A couple of other ideas. :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . Y . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O O . . 1 . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O . . . X . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


A leaning attack. If Black cuts, you can push him towards the right.

But remember the old joke:

Patient: Doctor, it hurts when I do this.

Doctor: Don't do that.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Counter pincer
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O . . . X . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Having built up strength in the bottom left corner, White pincers the :bc: stone. :)

_________________
"Drooling Banjos"

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group