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English version of Zen(ith) Go 6 (d’load, Windows, 7d)
http://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=13715		 Page 2 of 2
Author:  Mike Novack [ Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: English version of Zen(ith) Go 6 (d’load, Windows, 7d)
kdbaby1412 wrote:
I totally see your point. It makes sense now.
When I put it at 7 dan, it takes less than 30 sec for a move.
But when I specify time at 30 sec, sometimes it used all 30 sec and most of the time it used more than 20 sec to play one move. And I do notice the difference in strength.

However, I won't say the program is as strong as 7d on KGS.


You have enough crunch with your 4790 that while maybe not 7d, probably at least 4-5. But I am curious what you mean, how you might be judging its strength if you are around 4 kyu.

How many stones do you have to take to beat it? Are you able to beat it, or are you thinking things like "well a stone is about 10 points, so if the program beats me by only 30 points it's only three stones better". That's the wrong way to think, especially with programs that make any use of MCTS.
Author:  kdbaby1412 [ Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: English version of Zen(ith) Go 6 (d’load, Windows, 7d)
Mike Novack wrote:
kdbaby1412 wrote:
I totally see your point. It makes sense now.
When I put it at 7 dan, it takes less than 30 sec for a move.
But when I specify time at 30 sec, sometimes it used all 30 sec and most of the time it used more than 20 sec to play one move. And I do notice the difference in strength.

However, I won't say the program is as strong as 7d on KGS.


You have enough crunch with your 4790 that while maybe not 7d, probably at least 4-5. But I am curious what you mean, how you might be judging its strength if you are around 4 kyu.

How many stones do you have to take to beat it? Are you able to beat it, or are you thinking things like "well a stone is about 10 points, so if the program beats me by only 30 points it's only three stones better". That's the wrong way to think, especially with programs that make any use of MCTS.


Ah I see. Thanks for the insight

How I test it? I let it played with my cousin, who is a 5d on KGS. He beat it about ~20 points. There are few mistakes that Zen make, but overall, I think it reaches high 4d on my computer.
Author:  jorden [ Thu Nov 17, 2016 5:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: English version of Zen(ith) Go 6 (d’load, Windows, 7d)
kdbaby1412 wrote:
No...I tend to play faster than the bot. Is this crucial to the bot strength?


Well, if you would play a human opponent, would it matter that they had more time or less time to play their moves?
Author:  pookpooi [ Thu Nov 17, 2016 6:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: English version of Zen(ith) Go 6 (d’load, Windows, 7d)
kdbaby1412 wrote:
Mike Novack wrote:
kdbaby1412 wrote:
Ah I see. Thanks for the insight

How I test it? I let it played with my cousin, who is a 5d on KGS. He beat it about ~20 points. There are few mistakes that Zen make, but overall, I think it reaches high 4d on my computer.


I'm not sure if one sample is enough to conclude, Hanayeol a go youtuber play against CrazyStone commercial version in 2 hours/side game and he lost all 5 games match. He's also 5D KGS. I think both CrazyStone and Zen are about the same rank, though right now Zen is much better in experiment version.
Author:  Mike Novack [ Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: English version of Zen(ith) Go 6 (d’load, Windows, 7d)
kdbaby1412 wrote:

How I test it? I let it played with my cousin, who is a 5d on KGS. He beat it about ~20 points. There are few mistakes that Zen make, but overall, I think it reaches high 4d on my computer.


But I will repeat, the margin of victory not a good indication of anything. All you know at this point is that with one game played, your 5d cousin won the game. You would know more after your cousin has played ten games against it.
Author:  Gomoto [ Thu Nov 17, 2016 8:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: English version of Zen(ith) Go 6 (d’load, Windows, 7d)
I really like Zenith Go 6.

strong AI
clean user interface
good game review tool (Analyze function and moving through game with mouse wheel)
nice graphics (I would like to be able to turn off the small black border around the white stones)
fast startup
you can run two instances (to memorize pro games for example)
manual replay function (memorize pro games)
good sgf editor
fast startup
rated games
best of seven games
tsumego (300 problems)
voice over
cho chikun :-))))

Some things that could be improved:
add a tree view
option to move through game just with the cursor keys
improve movement through different variations

Zen is not only a good engine but also a very good go program.
Author:  quantumf [ Thu Nov 17, 2016 11:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: English version of Zen(ith) Go 6 (d’load, Windows, 7d)
At a shade over $100 this is way too expensive, but just in case someone wants to buy me a Christmas present, any advice on how to register? It wants arcane zip codes, insists on selecting a state/prefecture from a drop down of Japanese strings, and wants telephone numbers in a specific format. Can I just put random numbers in?

Edit: the dlmarket link is far more reasonable.
Author:  kdbaby1412 [ Thu Nov 17, 2016 11:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: English version of Zen(ith) Go 6 (d’load, Windows, 7d)
So today, I let Zen play 3 blitz game with my cousin, 5D KGS. Zen win all 3 by resignation.

5s / move each.

zen strength really flourish during speed Go.
The program is run on normal priority under i7-4930k.

I did attach the file. Zen play W in all 3 games. Komi 6.5, japanese Rule. 1:00 minute start. Zen are set at 5s each. The opponent has 10 sec per Byo-yomi.







Attachments:
Honda C vs Zen game 3.sgf [851 Bytes]
Downloaded 612 times
Honda C vs Zen game 2.sgf [1.19 KiB]
Downloaded 569 times
HondaC vs Zen.sgf [1.12 KiB]
Downloaded 544 times
Author:  Satorian [ Thu Nov 17, 2016 12:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: English version of Zen(ith) Go 6 (d’load, Windows, 7d)
kdbaby1412 wrote:
zen strength really flourish during speed Go.
The program is run on normal priority under i7-4930k.


Zen generally runs better when set to a specific thinking time rather than a specific strength especially on fast CPUs, as it then utilizes all cores as long as possible instead of a single core until a preset calculation limit is hit.
Author:  kdbaby1412 [ Thu Nov 17, 2016 12:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: English version of Zen(ith) Go 6 (d’load, Windows, 7d)
Indeed true. I found this is very interesting. I will test out more game.

So far, on my CPU, Zen play 6 games with 5d KGS and manage to win 5
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