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 Post subject: Re: Go Eye released 2.3.5
Post #281 Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 8:50 pm 
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Is there a complete (!) documentation of the program's features? In particular, does Go Eye

- support all SGF FF[4] features including a) any number of single or multiple successive passes at any time, b) arbitrary (!) labels (maximally how long?) consisting of upper / lower case letters, digits and punctuation marks, c) SGF diagrams using the SGF properties FG, PM, MN, PL, VW, d) markup of black stones, white stones, triangles, circles, squares, crosses on empty intersections or stones, e) arbitrary board sizes, f) arbitrary variations including such starting with a pass, starting with an SGF diagram, starting with the same move as a sibling, starting at the root,
- offer different views for viewing, editing and printing preview,
- have a convenient way for going to the next / previous move,
- have a convenient way for markup or arbitrary labels of several intersections carrying the same markup or arbitrary labels,
- support local, iTunes (or other programs' using iTunes) files transfer (via USB) of arbitrarily many files to / from a Windows PC in subdirectories?

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 Post subject: Re: Go Eye released 2.3.5
Post #282 Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 10:36 pm 
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RobertJasiek wrote:
Is there a complete (!) documentation of the program's features? In particular, does Go Eye

- support all SGF FF[4] features including a) any number of single or multiple successive passes at any time, b) arbitrary (!) labels (maximally how long?) consisting of upper / lower case letters, digits and punctuation marks, c) SGF diagrams using the SGF properties FG, PM, MN, PL, VW, d) markup of black stones, white stones, triangles, circles, squares, crosses on empty intersections or stones, e) arbitrary board sizes, f) arbitrary variations including such starting with a pass, starting with an SGF diagram, starting with the same move as a sibling, starting at the root,
- offer different views for viewing, editing and printing preview,
- have a convenient way for going to the next / previous move,
- have a convenient way for markup or arbitrary labels of several intersections carrying the same markup or arbitrary labels,
- support local, iTunes (or other programs' using iTunes) files transfer (via USB) of arbitrarily many files to / from a Windows PC in subdirectories?


A list of the major features at http://e-intuit.hk/goeye.

In the future, we will publish a detailed user manual for it. It doesn't have now as Go Eye has so many features.


a) Major FF[4] properties are supported. Pass moves supported, for any sequences.
b) Labels supporting A-Z. No punctuation marks. Not supporting arbitrary length (A-Z for letter labels).
c) For SGF diagrams using the SGF properties FG, PM, MN, VW, only PL is supported. For diagrams, Go Eye will automatically generate the diagrams in the book pages (book mode) and has options to allow the resetting of MN.

Support PDF page (book mode) with nice page turing effects. Auto layout and paging of SGF games in book mode.

d) Markup supported.
e) Supported board size 19x19, 17x17, 15x15, 13x13, 9x9, 7x7, 4x4
f) Supported except carrying same markup to next move.

Import/export are well supported (for all those sync methods listed). And remarkably it has an in-app browser to download a SGF/RAR/Zip games seamlessly into it. For folders, pls zip it and it will be imported as a game group. (I always use dropbox to keep my game collections, and when I want it, I import from dropbox. And for backup, vice versa).

And there are many other features not in the question list. Browsing this long post may help to discover some with screen dumps, e.g., Go4go integration, image recognition, diagram code support, 3D display, online refresh of running games, Apple TV support(Go Eye was used by China national TV sports channel (CCTV5) to broadcast Go competition named "Who is the King"), social network sharing, ....

Please let me know if you want to know more. Thanks for asking.

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 Post subject: Re: Go Eye released 2.3.5
Post #283 Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:43 am 
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Thank you for your answers.

If the list of major features had been enough information, I need not ask:) IMO, providing an always complete list of features can only help you.

Advanced features are nice for those using them, but I am mostly interested in basic features. If any essential basic feature is missing, I need to use my Windows PC instead. Complete SGF FF[4] support belongs to the basics. My idea is that I want to view and edit on iOS what I create with GoWrite on Windows and that I can view, edit and print with GoWrite on Windows what I view and edit on iOS. (Similarly, I would like to be able to recommend my pupils at least one iOS SGF editor capable of SGF FF[4]. Currently, I only hear many complaining that SGF on iOS is not supported suitably. 1 million iOS apps but none fully implements SGF. Go Eye is app with a significant price tag, so why not take pride to be the first supporting the basics?)

That only major SGF properties are supported forces me to ask: which are fully supported? Everybody considers different properties "major", so I cannot know which are supported.

I understand that A-Z labels are supported, but does this mean a) that a-z, b) digits, c) arbitrary alphanumeric labels (up to length 3 or 4), d) repeated marking of the same arbitrary alphanumeric label are NOT supported? (And yes, I do need punctuation marks.)

When you write "For SGF diagrams using the SGF properties FG, PM, MN, VW, only PL is supported.", does this mean that FG, PM, MN, VW are NOT supported at all (except for Go Eye's book mode in the GUI)?

But I think you say that MN is supported. "has options to allow the resetting of MN": Does this mean that an SGF tree can have several nodes with MN properties stored and applied when displaying a position? Or is MN not stored and used only on the GUI's view?

Arbitrary board sizes are an essential feature of SGF.

"except carrying same markup to next move": So suppose a position at move 1 has markup. Does this mean that move 2 shows the same markup, even if I do not want the position to show any markup?

iTunes file sharing: IIUYC, the following are NOT supported, right? 1) Import of a folder with subfolders with various single SGFs in the folders. 2) Export of a folder with subfolders with various single SGFs in the folders. (And no, of course, I do not want to use any cloud.)

Do I understand you correctly that the following are NOT supported? 1) different views for viewing, editing and printing preview (all views on a go board; I do not mean Go Eye book mode), 2) a convenient way for going to the next / previous move, 3) a convenient way for markup or arbitrary labels of several intersections carrying the same markup or arbitrary labels.

You ask what else I wish: uhm, a different icon on the iOS home screen! I get it that the program name is being illustrated, but I consider eye symbols ugly. That I nevertheless inquire about features is my pure desparation that no other iOS app provides all the basic features. Hint: an icon consisting of a small position showing stones building eyes would be perfectly acceptable.

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 Post subject: Re: Go Eye released 2.3.5
Post #284 Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 3:44 am 
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RobertJasiek wrote:
Advanced features are nice for those using them, but I am mostly interested in basic features. If any essential basic feature is missing, I need to use my Windows PC instead. Complete SGF FF[4] support belongs to the basics.


Hi Robert, from software development point of view, those missing SGF features are 'advanced' features because they 'are nice for those using them' but most users do not use them. This is a typical 80-20 problem - the developer needs to put in a lot of time to implement some features that few people will use. So more often than not they are not implemented :-)

Go Eye's author is a very good developer. I am sure he can help you solve some problems, if you can provide specific use cases (e.g. a particular SGF tag in an SGF file that is not currently handled properly). Creating something just to satisfy a standard (not to mention whether the standard is well defined) is only a matter of pride - this really doesn't not happen too often in real world.

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 Post subject: Re: Go Eye released 2.3.5
Post #285 Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 4:28 am 
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For Windows and Linux, things are very different: SGF is essentially fully implemented in a number of softwares, even freewares. The least used SGF properties are much easier to implement than some of those needed for preparing printing / book writing. Sure, I can provide sample SGFs illustrating my typical needs, if requested.

SGF is one of the nice standards, of which 95% is actually relevant and important.

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 Post subject: Re: Go Eye released 2.3.5
Post #286 Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 5:52 am 
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RobertJasiek wrote:
Thank you for your answers.

I understand that A-Z labels are supported, but does this mean a) that a-z, b) digits, c) arbitrary alphanumeric labels (up to length 3 or 4), d) repeated marking of the same arbitrary alphanumeric label are NOT supported? (And yes, I do need punctuation marks.)


Go Eye allows to input A-Z (It will increase the letter automatically, e.g., you choose "A", then next touch for markup, it will get B.) But for a-z, or, any other letters, like "#!aaa", etc. There is no convenient way for Go Eye to input it.

First of all, Go Eye shows them (If the SGF is from Go write or others).

Though I said "no convenient way", there is a very clumsy way in Go Eye that allow you to rely on iOS device only (no need to own a PC), to input them. It is "Raw SGF editing". The last resort for everything that you want, including all SGF properties.

See the attached screen.
Attachment:
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Screen Shot 2016-04-14 at 7.39.56 PM.png [ 33.92 KiB | Viewed 1063 times ]


Attachment:
Screen Shot 2016-04-14 at 7.40.05 PM.png
Screen Shot 2016-04-14 at 7.40.05 PM.png [ 421.71 KiB | Viewed 1063 times ]


Quote:
When you write "For SGF diagrams using the SGF properties FG, PM, MN, VW, only PL is supported.", does this mean that FG, PM, MN, VW are NOT supported at all (except for Go Eye's book mode in the GUI)?

But I think you say that MN is supported. "has options to allow the resetting of MN": Does this mean that an SGF tree can have several nodes with MN properties stored and applied when displaying a position? Or is MN not stored and used only on the GUI's view?


Yes, it is supported in Go Eye's GUI only instead of storing them for the resetting option.

Quote:
Arbitrary board sizes are an essential feature of SGF.


Only the list of sizes are valid


Quote:
"except carrying same markup to next move": So suppose a position at move 1 has markup. Does this mean that move 2 shows the same markup, even if I do not want the position to show any markup?


No, I meant that they are not carried to next move. The markups are reset to nil when moving to other number.

Quote:
iTunes file sharing: IIUYC, the following are NOT supported, right? 1) Import of a folder with subfolders with various single SGFs in the folders. 2) Export of a folder with subfolders with various single SGFs in the folders. (And no, of course, I do not want to use any cloud.)


Go Eye supports one level of group only. So to import a group of files, you need a zip/rar archive.
In Go Eye's setting page, there is one option to "Import from itunes". It has detailed reference instruction for user (Apple's guide) to share files between desktop itunes and the devices connected through USB. Once files are uploaded to the iTunes folder, they appear in Go Eye immediately. So user can tap the file in Go Eye and import into a group.
See

Attachment:
Screen Shot 2016-04-14 at 7.36.41 PM.png
Screen Shot 2016-04-14 at 7.36.41 PM.png [ 187.96 KiB | Viewed 1063 times ]



Quote:
Do I understand you correctly that the following are NOT supported? 1) different views for viewing, editing and printing preview (all views on a go board; I do not mean Go Eye book mode), 2) a convenient way for going to the next / previous move, 3) a convenient way for markup or arbitrary labels of several intersections carrying the same markup or arbitrary labels.


2-3 have misunderstandings.
2) is absolutely essential to a Go app.
3) is convenient to automatically increase labels from A to Z. For other markups like triangles, also very convenient. The mode for markup is sticky so you can add consecutively.

For 1, the book mode is actually the PDF view (it can be exported to SGF through email). So it is the "printing" feature.

Quote:
You ask what else I wish: uhm, a different icon on the iOS home screen! I get it that the program name is being illustrated, but I consider eye symbols ugly. That I nevertheless inquire about features is my pure desparation that no other iOS app provides all the basic features. Hint: an icon consisting of a small position showing stones building eyes would be perfectly acceptable.


The icon is created by a part time UX designer and many people like it more than the old icon. It is quite subjective for app icon choice. So I may keep it for a while until there is a better design that we can afford .


In summary, at lease Go Eye can create anything that other desktop editor can show, if the user is willing to edit with Go Eye's GUI, together with the adjustment with raw SGF text editing (It will verify grammar before allowing user to save.)

For unimplemented properties like diagram properties, to add them, we need to have a better UX design of how to conveniently perform the tasks.

Please speak out if some of my explanations are not clear. Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Go Eye released 2.3.5
Post #287 Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 6:14 am 
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Raw SGF editing is a nice program feature to have for emergency and, due to syntax checking, better than a simple plain text editor. However, for the typical files I edit, which have many variants, raw SGF editing is by far too slow. For something that an SGF GUI can, in principle, do within seconds, I cannot spend minutes because I work with dozens of thousands of files and would easily waste months of my life.

There are use cases when reset markups at every next move makes sense, and other use cases when markup changing only at SGF diagram nodes makes sense.

Import into a group is useless for my usage. I absolutely need separate files. I guess that I might use Syncios to export / import files, but currently it does not make sense (via ZIP / grouped SGF).

Concerning a convenient way for going to the next / previous move, let me ask for specifically: it is insufficient on a tablet to have forward / backward buttons somewhere in the GUI because such buttons are too small. EasyGo has a convenient solution: click on the left or right half of the board. This is very easy to reach on a tablet while holding it. Does Go Eye have something similarly convenient?

Icon: of course, it is very subjective:)

Better GUI design: a good design is needed indeed for efficient use of advanced features. If a frequently used (by the user) feature / command takes more than 3 seconds, it is inefficient.

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 Post subject: Re: Go Eye released 2.3.5
Post #288 Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 6:19 am 
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RobertJasiek wrote:
Raw SGF editing is a nice program feature to have for emergency and, due to syntax checking, better than a simple plain text editor. However, for the typical files I edit, which have many variants, raw SGF editing is by far too slow. For something that an SGF GUI can, in principle, do within seconds, I cannot spend minutes because I work with dozens of thousands of files and would easily waste months of my life.

There are use cases when reset markups at every next move makes sense, and other use cases when markup changing only at SGF diagram nodes makes sense.

Import into a group is useless for my usage. I absolutely need separate files. I guess that I might use Syncios to export / import files, but currently it does not make sense (via ZIP / grouped SGF).

Concerning a convenient way for going to the next / previous move, let me ask for specifically: it is insufficient on a tablet to have forward / backward buttons somewhere in the GUI because such buttons are too small. EasyGo has a convenient solution: click on the left or right half of the board. This is very easy to reach on a tablet while holding it. Does Go Eye have something similarly convenient?

Icon: of course, it is very subjective:)

Better GUI design: a good design is needed indeed for efficient use of advanced features. If a frequently used (by the user) feature / command takes more than 3 seconds, it is inefficient.


For move back/forth in Go Eye, swipe to left in the board to go backward, right for forward.

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 Post subject: Re: Go Eye released 2.3.5
Post #289 Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:17 am 
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Easy enough, but not so nice for the fingers. Clicks hurt the fingers less when repeated dozens of thousands of times during viewing many games. (One game has up to ca. 450 moves even without variations.) So I prefer the EasyGo method.

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 Post subject: Re: Go Eye released 2.3.5
Post #290 Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 12:52 pm 
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RobertJasiek wrote:
Concerning a convenient way for going to the next / previous move, let me ask for specifically: it is insufficient on a tablet to have forward / backward buttons somewhere in the GUI because such buttons are too small. EasyGo has a convenient solution: click on the left or right half of the board. This is very easy to reach on a tablet while holding it. Does Go Eye have something similarly convenient?


This is quite a headache for developers because multiple functions can interfere with each other and it is very hard to find universal solutions that fit all devices and satisfy all user preferences.

On a tablet, because the screen size is large, stone input is easier (unlikely to mis-click). Go Eye actually has an option to 'single tap to add a stone'. So there's no longer the option to use single tap to navigate.

On the other hand, on a phone, it makes sense to use long tap to activate some visual help to accurately place stones. So it is possible to program single tap to navigate. Even so one can argue that tapping the left side of the screen to navigate backward is not necessarily the best thing to do. People navigate forward much more frequently. And some users prefer to use single hand to navigate games. When using left hand you can only access the left side of the screen.

App developers can create more and more user settings so users can switch on/off certain features. Code soon becomes messy and harder to maintain and app becomes more difficult to use.

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 Post subject: Re: Go Eye released 2.3.5
Post #291 Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 1:23 pm 
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A phone GUI should not be the same as a tablet GUI.

Settings for different GUI gestures are good. If more settings make the settings GUI difficult, this is a badly designed settings GUI.

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 Post subject: Re: Go Eye released 2.3.5
Post #292 Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 4:52 pm 
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For those waiting for new updates. App Store has a serious issue today and many new apps/updates are not getting to the store though approved. So Go Eye is not arrived yet. I called them and they said they were working hard on it, and it would take more time for them to fix that.

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 Post subject: Re: Go Eye on promotion during Go Seigen's birthday period
Post #293 Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:43 pm 
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Go Eye on promotion during Go Seigen's 102nd birthday period, about 35% off.

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 Post subject: Re: Go Eye on promotion during Go Seigen's birthday period
Post #294 Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 6:25 am 
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Promotion continues for summer vacation.

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 Post subject: Re: Go Eye on promotion during Go Seigen's birthday period
Post #295 Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 1:13 pm 
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I am really impressed by the latest version of Go Eye 2.5.0. The new scoring algorithms is doing well to handle most tricky situations.

Attachment:
screen.png
screen.png [ 397.87 KiB | Viewed 673 times ]


As seen, the algorithm can automatically detect that D10, A17, C19, F5 and S2 have no point. This is really not an easy task.

The algorithm seems to work very well in most situations, although I pick this game to show that it is still not perfect (as seen that black has to play R8 and connect at P8, something not detected by the code). But nevertheless it is very well done.

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 Post subject: Re: Go Eye on promotion during Go Seigen's birthday period
Post #296 Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 11:01 pm 
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Actually I have a request if it is possible to develop for Android too?

I have an iPhone version of GoEye, but too bad it's not available in Mac store too.

Possible to port it to Mac too?

Thanks :)

Regards,
Jenson

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 Post subject: Re: Go Eye on promotion during Go Seigen's birthday period
Post #297 Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 7:58 am 
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macelee wrote:
I am really impressed by the latest version of Go Eye 2.5.0. The new scoring algorithms is doing well to handle most tricky situations.

As seen, the algorithm can automatically detect that D10, A17, C19, F5 and S2 have no point. This is really not an easy task.

The algorithm seems to work very well in most situations, although I pick this game to show that it is still not perfect (as seen that black has to play R8 and connect at P8, something not detected by the code). But nevertheless it is very well done.

Yes, this is tricky. Now that you give this example, let me try sgfcount. It often fails, but happens to pass this test.


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 Post subject: Re: Go Eye on promotion during Go Seigen's birthday period
Post #298 Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 6:06 pm 
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Short promotion on 11/11! Huge price cut! http://appstore.com/goeye

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 Post subject: Re: Go Eye on promotion during Go Seigen's birthday period
Post #299 Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 6:35 pm 
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Go Eye new version just came out and supported new live game data source from yikeweiqi.com. Now you can enjoy latest professional games at real time!

Be prepared for today's LG cup and Zen's games a few days later :)

Pull down and release gesture in the board view to refresh the game any time.

Attachment:
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IMG_2984.PNG [ 111.02 KiB | Viewed 366 times ]


This post by GoEye2012 was liked by 2 people: ez4u, macelee
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 Post subject: Re: Go Eye real time livecast of Deep Zen vs Cho Chikun toda
Post #300 Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 7:13 pm 
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Game today Cho Chikun vs Deep Zen Go (with Chinese comments).

Can Cho Chikun defend the dignity of human go players? Today, we will have an answer.


Last edited by GoEye2012 on Thu Nov 24, 2016 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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