It is currently Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:52 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 200 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: Re: GoUniverse (New KGS client)
Post #141 Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 8:12 pm 
Lives with ko
User avatar

Posts: 290
Liked others: 89
Was liked: 79
Rank: 1 kyu
KGS: LocoRon
Bonobo wrote:
The way they put it, it looks as if GoUniverse is a brainchild of ASR, or at least as if it were a commissioned work, as if they were the principal and you were just a mere contractor.


This is the way I read it as well. Like they're trying to advertise their own software.

In my mind, this alone elevates them from mere spammers to something more harmful, more insidious.


This post by LocoRon was liked by 2 people: Bonobo, KOCMOHABT
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: GoUniverse (New KGS client)
Post #142 Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 10:32 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 181
Location: Japan
Liked others: 34
Was liked: 52
Rank: KGS 3-5k
Bonobo wrote:
KOCMOHABT wrote:
But, i must agree with @Go_Japan, there is nothing bad if they will use my app.

I tend to disagree about this.

The way they put it, it looks as if GoUniverse is a brainchild of ASR, or at least as if it were a commissioned work, as if they were the principal and you were just a mere contractor.

And about possible monetizing … ASR’s way of claiming the credits for GoUniverse while not even mentioning the developer’s name, well, you just connect the dots … just watch what’s going on, be careful whom you trust or whom you allow to use your credentials, your work, and in which way.

I’m done here, I think … all I wanted was to direct your attention to these things which seem VERY odd to me (to say the least), and because I have seen similar things before, and they culminated in a very ugly way.


The issues here are a bit complicated. There is no way that they can claim owndership over the software. It is clear under US copyright law (that is extended many places around the world) based on the DMCA, that the ownership of the software is the developer, even if it is open source.
They are a bit misleading in their statements on the webpage announcement
Quote:
Luckily now we can announce a java free, purely web browser based solution we like to introduce to our > 345 league members.


The way they describe it here is as if it is their software, but it is only implicit. They are announcing it, but they don't say that it is theirs specifically. There is not much you can really argue with here I think. If they added a line, "developed by xxx" there is nothing wrong with the above passage. The omission of that statement is not ideal, but also doesn't specifically claim ownership or development by ASR.

Quote:
The first alpha test by the ASR team is promising (see screenshots). We are in an intensive dialogue with the programmer to develope the application further on to cover your needs.


This is strange considering that the developer said they haven't been contacted by ASR. I am not sure why ASR would say it because this implies much a tighter connection between ASR and the software. However, this negates any and all ownership rights because they specifically say that they are not in fact doing the work themselves.

Overall, I think it is annoying and perhaps a bit of plagiarism, but nothing legally wrong here.

The guy/girl who is actually hosting the software and allowing people to play it without the extension I think is potentially a bigger problem. If the developer decides to monetize the software through ads or something, they would have to get this person to remove it from their server because they could run it without ads or with their own monetization.

That's my opinion anyway. I think probably this is more about ASR and the rift they created with some members of this community rather than between ASR and the developer of GoUniverse.

I would recommend that GoUniverse make it explicit that the software cannot be hosted on a website without permission. They may also wish to add some other legalese to a copyright notice to be sure everyone is clear about the developers position.


This post by Go_Japan was liked by 2 people: KOCMOHABT, Waylon
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: GoUniverse (New KGS client)
Post #143 Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 2:08 am 
Beginner

Posts: 15
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 5
Rank: OGS 14k
KGS: quanloh
IGS: quanloh
OGS: quanloh
Online playing schedule: OGS 1900-2200 GMT+8
All these only remind me about the new management member of ASR who is good at marketing(or lying in this case).

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: GoUniverse (New KGS client)
Post #144 Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 4:44 am 
Dies in gote
User avatar

Posts: 45
Location: Germany
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 9
Rank: 4 kyu
Even though ASR has done nothing legally wrong, it's still kind of disrespectful and obnoxious. I have to agree with @Bonobo. Also, why do you have to register in the ASR forums as a beta tester? That's pure misdirection.

Go_Japan wrote:
I would recommend that GoUniverse make it explicit that the software cannot be hosted on a website without permission. They may also wish to add some other legalese to a copyright notice to be sure everyone is clear about the developers position.


IMHO this would go against the idea of open source. It should be free for any other developer to take GoUniverse, modify it, and republish it with the requirements stated under the license (LGPL).

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: GoUniverse (New KGS client)
Post #145 Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 5:17 am 
Dies with sente

Posts: 122
Liked others: 104
Was liked: 134
Rank: 4d
KGS: KOCMOHABT
Image

Some screenshot will come and reveal the mystery :))

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: GoUniverse (New KGS client)
Post #146 Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 6:30 am 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1953
Location: Germany
Liked others: 7010
Was liked: 798
Rank: OGS + EGF DDK
OGS: trohde
Pls see also here: ASR league seeks Beta testers for html5 browser client

_________________
“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.” — Mark Twain ★ Come and play on OGS


This post by Bonobo was liked by: KOCMOHABT
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: GoUniverse (New KGS client)
Post #147 Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 11:05 pm 
Dies in gote

Posts: 46
Liked others: 12
Was liked: 8
Rank: Total beginner
Universal go server handle: Satorian
Did I get that right, that it would be possible to host the extension's code on an own web server and run it from there? Would be interesting for using it with an Android tablet, where the browser doesn't support extensions.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: GoUniverse (New KGS client)
Post #148 Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:55 am 
Lives with ko

Posts: 181
Location: Japan
Liked others: 34
Was liked: 52
Rank: KGS 3-5k
Satorian wrote:
Did I get that right, that it would be possible to host the extension's code on an own web server and run it from there? Would be interesting for using it with an Android tablet, where the browser doesn't support extensions.


Someone is hosting it already: http://gou.coildomain.com/

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: GoUniverse (New KGS client)
Post #149 Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:59 am 
Lives with ko

Posts: 181
Location: Japan
Liked others: 34
Was liked: 52
Rank: KGS 3-5k
yishn wrote:
Even though ASR has done nothing legally wrong, it's still kind of disrespectful and obnoxious. I have to agree with @Bonobo. Also, why do you have to register in the ASR forums as a beta tester? That's pure misdirection.

Go_Japan wrote:
I would recommend that GoUniverse make it explicit that the software cannot be hosted on a website without permission. They may also wish to add some other legalese to a copyright notice to be sure everyone is clear about the developers position.


IMHO this would go against the idea of open source. It should be free for any other developer to take GoUniverse, modify it, and republish it with the requirements stated under the license (LGPL).


I don't write software, but I know there are a lot of different licenses out there. The owner can relicense the software anytime they wish. I don't know how "open" software must be to be considered "open source" and whether it is possible to monetize it or not under a very broad open license. Still it does not change the fact that the developer owns the copyright to the software. That won't change no matter how open the licensing is.
I have seen software that was first open source and free change to a paid sub version later as it was developed and updated.


This post by Go_Japan was liked by: KOCMOHABT
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: GoUniverse (New KGS client)
Post #150 Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 1:53 am 
Dies with sente

Posts: 122
Liked others: 104
Was liked: 134
Rank: 4d
KGS: KOCMOHABT
Satorian wrote:
Did I get that right, that it would be possible to host the extension's code on an own web server and run it from there? Would be interesting for using it with an Android tablet, where the browser doesn't support extensions.



As was mentioned above, there is a such server already, but that guy/girl doesn't update it somewhy. That's why some functions doesn't work there, like a creating challenge for example. For now you can launch your server, but i wouldn't recommend that, because my app doesn't adapted to tablets and phones. I don't know why some of you guys can't wait a little bit more, when i will release a good version for tablets and phones. It's hard to say when it certainly will be, but it will be done for sure.

PS: Btw, i had waited yesterday for 8 hours an email from ASR legaue and got nothing. Asked about that LinuxGooo before i was going to sleep, he said that i should wait 1 more hour. Still no any email today. And that is what they call "We are in an intensive dialogue with the programmer" :))


This post by KOCMOHABT was liked by 3 people: Bonobo, Ember, Waylon
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: GoUniverse (New KGS client)
Post #151 Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 2:47 am 
Dies in gote

Posts: 46
Liked others: 12
Was liked: 8
Rank: Total beginner
Universal go server handle: Satorian
KOCMOHABT wrote:
Satorian wrote:
Did I get that right, that it would be possible to host the extension's code on an own web server and run it from there? Would be interesting for using it with an Android tablet, where the browser doesn't support extensions.
I don't know why some of you guys can't wait a little bit more, when i will release a good version for tablets and phones. It's hard to say when it certainly will be, but it will be done for sure.



Oh, I didn't know that's in the works. Nevermind then. :)

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: GoUniverse (New KGS client)
Post #152 Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 5:20 am 
Dies in gote
User avatar

Posts: 45
Location: Germany
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 9
Rank: 4 kyu
Go_Japan wrote:
I don't write software, but I know there are a lot of different licenses out there. The owner can relicense the software anytime they wish. I don't know how "open" software must be to be considered "open source" and whether it is possible to monetize it or not under a very broad open license. Still it does not change the fact that the developer owns the copyright to the software. That won't change no matter how open the licensing is.

I have seen software that was first open source and free change to a paid sub version later as it was developed and updated.


I completely agree. I was just expressing my opinion on this subject. I wouldn't want GoUniverse to prohibit other users to host it. But of course, the developer makes all decisions himself.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: GoUniverse (New KGS client)
Post #153 Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 9:58 am 
Oza
User avatar

Posts: 2691
Location: Seattle, WA
Liked others: 245
Was liked: 525
KGS: oren
Tygem: oren740, orenl
IGS: oren
Wbaduk: oren
KOCMOHABT wrote:
PS: Btw, i had waited yesterday for 8 hours an email from ASR legaue and got nothing. Asked about that LinuxGooo before i was going to sleep, he said that i should wait 1 more hour. Still no any email today. And that is what they call "We are in an intensive dialogue with the programmer" :))


No surprise from anyone that the truth isn't too important. :)

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: GoUniverse (New KGS client)
Post #154 Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 2:03 pm 
Lives with ko
User avatar

Posts: 197
Location: Germany
Liked others: 71
Was liked: 54
Rank: EGF 4k - KGS 3k
KGS: Fuenkchen
OGS: Fuenkchen
Online playing schedule: A schedule..? When hell freezes over... maybe. ^^;
KOCMOHABT wrote:
I don't know why some of you guys can't wait a little bit more, when i will release a good version for tablets and phones. It's hard to say when it certainly will be, but it will be done for sure.

Excellent. After all those years buying a Samsung Galaxy Tab 2.0 will FINALLY pay off! :D And no, this is not irony. I originally bought the tab to play Go on it but never wanted to pay for a client which (as far as I know) is inferior to the free online version (and just as not-nice looking as the online version). And OGS somehow didn't work for me either.. so... I'm really looking forward to this feature! <3

_________________
Image

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: GoUniverse (New KGS client)
Post #155 Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 2:05 pm 
Judan

Posts: 7146
Liked others: 1298
Was liked: 1075
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Yeah, I guess support for tablets and phones is higher on my priority list than getting audio to work for lectures :-)

_________________
Discipline is remembering what you want. -David Campbell

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: GoUniverse (New KGS client)
Post #156 Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 12:21 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 202
Location: Santiago, Chile
Liked others: 39
Was liked: 43
Rank: EGF 1d
Universal go server handle: Jhyn
Thank you for your work. I find it already a superior interface to CGoban and all go interfaces except GoPanda for IGS.

If I might add a very low priority ticket to your list, I find it strange that challenges by ? are below challenges by -. New players get hidden under a swarm of bots and this is not very welcoming.

_________________
La victoire est un hasard, la défaite une nécessité.


This post by Jhyn was liked by: KOCMOHABT
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: GoUniverse (New KGS client)
Post #157 Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 1:25 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 181
Location: Japan
Liked others: 34
Was liked: 52
Rank: KGS 3-5k
Jhyn wrote:
Thank you for your work. I find it already a superior interface to CGoban and all go interfaces except GoPanda for IGS.

If I might add a very low priority ticket to your list, I find it strange that challenges by ? are below challenges by -. New players get hidden under a swarm of bots and this is not very welcoming.


Alternatively, if you could have a no-bot challenge list, maybe people would appreciate that.


This post by Go_Japan was liked by: KOCMOHABT
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: GoUniverse (New KGS client)
Post #158 Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 2:04 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 202
Location: Santiago, Chile
Liked others: 39
Was liked: 43
Rank: EGF 1d
Universal go server handle: Jhyn
As a side note - sorry if this was asked before - is there any way to support the project, financially or otherwise? Do you accept donations?

_________________
La victoire est un hasard, la défaite une nécessité.


This post by Jhyn was liked by 3 people: Bonobo, KOCMOHABT, Nyanjilla
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: GoUniverse (New KGS client)
Post #159 Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 6:14 pm 
Lives in gote

Posts: 584
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
Liked others: 37
Was liked: 192
Jhyn wrote:
As a side note - sorry if this was asked before - is there any way to support the project, financially or otherwise? Do you accept donations?


Yes he takes donations -- click the About button on the bottom of the login screen.


This post by yoyoma was liked by 4 people: Bonobo, Jhyn, KOCMOHABT, Nyanjilla
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: GoUniverse (New KGS client)
Post #160 Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 1:09 am 
Lives with ko

Posts: 202
Location: Santiago, Chile
Liked others: 39
Was liked: 43
Rank: EGF 1d
Universal go server handle: Jhyn
yoyoma wrote:
Yes he takes donations -- click the About button on the bottom of the login screen.


Thank you, I missed that - unfortunately this brings me to a Paypal page in Russian with no apparent way to change the language. I ended up sending the donation from my own Paypal account by copy-pasting his mail address. I'm mentioning this just in case you're looking to make donating easier.

_________________
La victoire est un hasard, la défaite une nécessité.


This post by Jhyn was liked by 2 people: Bonobo, KOCMOHABT
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 200 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group