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 Post subject: Re: Cgoban being blocked in a future Java security update?
Post #21 Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:02 am 
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UnclMartin wrote:
The most recent version of Java 7 is update 51. As far as I know, the ability to add exceptions is not available with older versions.

My Mac update is 45, and claims to be the current version and won't let me update it. Hidden pic follows. Any ideas? There is a chance I told it to skip an update, because I didn't want KGS to fail, but you'd think it would let me update manually.

Anyway, hopefully whatever WMS has done makes it a non-issue. Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Cgoban being blocked in a future Java security update?
Post #22 Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:06 am 
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It still is an issue for applet users with the most recent version of Java (7, update 51). In order to run the applet, they have to enter some exceptions as described earlier in this thread.

There is a web page that tests which version of Java someone has. It is at http://www.java.com/en/download/install ... =jre&try=1 . This tests the version used by the Java plug in. Another way to test which version is in use is to open a command window, and enter the command java -version

I once communicated with a user that got different results from those tests. Oracle recommends users have only one version of Java on their machines, and it should be a recent version of Java 7.


http://www.java.com/en/download/faq/rem ... rsions.xml

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 Post subject: Re: Cgoban being blocked in a future Java security update?
Post #23 Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:16 am 
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wineandgolover wrote:
My Mac update is 45, and claims to be the current version and won't let me update it. Hidden pic follows. Any ideas? There is a chance I told it to skip an update, because I didn't want KGS to fail, but you'd think it would let me update manually.


So far as I know, that's the latest version for the Mac. But I can't check for myself because I haven't updated to Mavericks (still using AppleWorks--don't laugh).


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 Post subject: Re: Cgoban being blocked in a future Java security update?
Post #24 Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:56 pm 
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None of this is working for me, I'm afraid - I've added every exception mentioned in this thread but both the client and the applet just hang while loading. Has anyone managed to get this working on OS X Mavericks with Java 7.51?

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Post #25 Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:07 pm 
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rottenhat wrote:
None of this is working for me, I'm afraid - I've added every exception mentioned in this thread but both the client and the applet just hang while loading. Has anyone managed to get this working on OS X Mavericks with Java 7.51?

I using Mavericks, and java 1.7.0_45 and don't have any problems (except the usual problems, sound, font kerning, etc). Apple no longer provides Java out of the box -- I had to install it myself. (unless you did an upgrade to Mavericks, instead of new install -- then the OS installer probably tweaked some settings for you that disabled things)

And they don't seem to have a browser plugin for applets, so I had to downgrade to Java 6 for both running the applet and using Java Webstart (I had to find where the OS tweaked the java webstart settings and re-enable them)

Otherwise, I can run the cgoban jar just fine with either version of java on my new Mac. (except when I'm at work, I have to setup an ssh tunnel to my ISP because the corporate firewall has the port blocked)

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Post #26 Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:12 pm 
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UnclMartin wrote:
Oracle recommends users have only one version of Java on their machines, and it should be a recent version of Java 7.

That's just dumb. As a java developer, I have multiple versions of Java on my machine and use whichever one I need to use to get what ever job done that I'm working on at the time. You properly define JAVA_HOME and your PATH in which ever shell environment you're working in, and away you go.

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 Post subject: Re: Cgoban being blocked in a future Java security update?
Post #27 Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 11:16 am 
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In this discussion, I am assuming "versions of Java" means "versions of Java Standard Edition."

In making that recommendation, Oracle realizes some developers might need to use older versions in order to debug software using older versions of Java. That is why they offer older versions for download. However, they warn that these older versions should not be used in production, since older versions have security issues.

About a year ago, there was a lot of publicity about serious security issues in Java. In fact, security experts, including some at the United States Department of Homeland Security, recommended disabling the Java plugin or removing Java from computers.

Although some developers might need to have more than one version, I think most users will not need to have more than one version. And having only a recent version is more secure.


Last edited by UnclMartin on Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #28 Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 5:01 pm 
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I wonder if most people who sit there and busily download all the newest versions for all the newest stuff they use even know what "security issues" really mean. And what exact security issues is the new versions of the new stuff fixing. Or if they even need it....

Just sayin'...

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Post #29 Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 5:54 pm 
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Bantari wrote:
I wonder if most people who sit there and busily download all the newest versions for all the newest stuff they use even know what "security issues" really mean. And what exact security issues is the new versions of the new stuff fixing. Or if they even need it....

Just sayin'...


1. Users do not need to know exactly what exploit was fixed on what version. Users should not need such technical expertise and, moreover, users might not even be able to know that as the source code is often proprietary.

2. That why these package should automatically update themselves, or at least ask you to. Recent versions of chrome and firefox already update some plugins to the latest version without asking the user (e.g. flash, probably java as well).

In case you are wondering what these security patches fix and the risks of running not up-to-date versions, the most severe usually allow remote code execution, which basically means "full" access to your machine. Others allow privilege escalation which might be even worse in some OS.

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 Post subject: Re: Cgoban being blocked in a future Java security update?
Post #30 Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:10 pm 
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rottenhat wrote:
None of this is working for me, I'm afraid - I've added every exception mentioned in this thread but both the client and the applet just hang while loading. Has anyone managed to get this working on OS X Mavericks with Java 7.51?


If it hangs while loading, without a dialog appearing (such as giving you a warning and asking if you want to continue), it is likely an unrelated problem.


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Post #31 Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 6:55 am 
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Yes, I get the pop-up window to say that the application is downloading, but the progress bar never advances. Similarly, the applet just sits there allegedly loading (with the spiralling graphic around the Java logo) but never gets anywhere. Any notion what might be the issue? I tried disabling browser extensions to see if that would make any difference but no luck.

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Post #32 Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:45 am 
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uPWarrior wrote:
Bantari wrote:
I wonder if most people who sit there and busily download all the newest versions for all the newest stuff they use even know what "security issues" really mean. And what exact security issues is the new versions of the new stuff fixing. Or if they even need it....

Just sayin'...


1. Users do not need to know exactly what exploit was fixed on what version. Users should not need such technical expertise


You are right, of course. Users are just that - users, consumers. They don't need to know nothing, just blindly follow the updates and trust... no, not "trust" - *know!*... that the big corporations releasing the new and improved versions of the stuff they use are always up to par and on the level.

Silly me.
Sorry for suggesting that users should actually benefit from knowing anything. What was I thinking?!?...

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Post #33 Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:09 am 
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There are different scopes of trust. It is very deep trust to allow a software to autoupdate using administrative or even system privileges. Such an update service can, in principle, spy everything. (Many other softwares actually do it.)

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Post #34 Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 2:17 pm 
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Sad to see what is happening to Java these days

To be honest, I just downloaded Java SDK 1.6 and command line from that "java -jar cgoban.jar"
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6749 ... on-windows

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Post #35 Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:13 pm 
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Bantari wrote:
You are right, of course. Users are just that - users, consumers. They don't need to know nothing, just blindly follow the updates and trust... no, not "trust" - *know!*... that the big corporations releasing the new and improved versions of the stuff they use are always up to par and on the level.

Silly me.
Sorry for suggesting that users should actually benefit from knowing anything. What was I thinking?!?...


That's childish. You should know as must as you can. However, you should also know that nobody knows everything and therefore trust is part of living in society. Do you know every ingredient of everything you eat? Do you know what goes into the fuel that the car passing by is using? Do you know if the building you are in is going to come to pieces in a second? You don't. You trust and that is fine because you have the opposite option: if you suspect the java update might do something unintended, then simply don't install it and move on, exactly the same way you wouldn't go into a building you don't trust.

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Post #36 Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 8:21 pm 
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rottenhat wrote:
None of this is working for me, I'm afraid - I've added every exception mentioned in this thread but both the client and the applet just hang while loading. Has anyone managed to get this working on OS X Mavericks with Java 7.51?
You can try this: Open a command window, and type in the following command: javaws -uninstall -clearcache

That should remove everything from the Java Web Start cache. This is what I advise when I suspect someone has a corrupt cached file. I often give that advice even when I do not suspect corruption and I think it will not work, but it often does.

Sorry about not seeing your request earlier.


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Post #37 Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 6:28 am 
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UnclMartin wrote:
You can try this: Open a command window, and type in the following command: javaws -uninstall -clearcache


OK, tried that, and got this response:

Terminal wrote:
objc[410]: Class JavaLaunchHelper is implemented in both /Library/Internet Plug-ins/JavaAppletPlugin.plugin/Contents/Home/bin/java and /Library/Internet Plug-Ins/JavaAppletPlugin.plugin/Contents/Home/lib/jli/./libjli.dylib. One of the two will be used. Which one is undefined.


which is the kind of thing that makes me realise that I still know bugger all about computers after all these years. I grasp what it's saying, but what I should do about it, if anything, is a mystery.

Anyway, the symptoms persist, so I guess I'll be doing without KGS for the foreseeable. A shame, after all these years, but there are other fish in the sea. Thanks for the suggestion though - I'll store that away for future reference if I have other issues.

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 Post subject: Re: Cgoban being blocked in a future Java security update?
Post #38 Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:20 pm 
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rottenhat wrote:
UnclMartin wrote:
You can try this: Open a command window, and type in the following command: javaws -uninstall -clearcache
OK, tried that, and got this response:
Terminal wrote:
objc[410]: Class JavaLaunchHelper is implemented in both /Library/Internet Plug-ins/JavaAppletPlugin.plugin/Contents/Home/bin/java and /Library/Internet Plug-Ins/JavaAppletPlugin.plugin/Contents/Home/lib/jli/./libjli.dylib. One of the two will be used. Which one is undefined.

[snip]
In that case, I suspect the Java installation itself is corrupted on your computer. Try completely uninstalling Java. (Sorry I cannot give detailed advice, since I am unfamiliar with Apple.) After you uninstall it, see if you can get help or advice on finding and removing Java files that might be left on your computer. (It may be possible that one version of Java was installed on your computer without uninstalling a previous version.) When you have Java removed from your computer, download and install the most recent version available for your machine.


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Post #39 Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 7:15 am 
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OK, I was able to delete the Java 1.7 plugin, and reinstall, and now things seem to be working fine.

On the way I discovered why I got that message about there being two versions of Java on the machine - although this laptop is reasonably new, and I'm running the latest version of the OS, when I got it, I set it up from a backup of my previous Mac. And in older versions of Mac OS there is an install of Java 1.6 lurking, which seems to still be present. So I was able to delete the plugin, re-enable 1.6, and run CGoban from Java Web Start. But I couldn't run the applet in the browser because the plugin was gone. So just to see, I reinstalled the plugin, and everything still worked fine. Disabled 1.6, and everything is still working.

So the problem seems to have been with the plugin. Hopefully that's the end of it.

In case it helps anyone else, these two articles were useful:

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT5559?viewlocale=en_US

http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/uninstall-or-disable-java-on-a-mac

Many thanks to UnclMartin for his suggestions.

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Post #40 Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:41 pm 
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Just wanted to say thanks for the Windows workaround. It was a success.

As for the osX workaround, well, this is the kind of restrictions you can expect with Apple products. :lol:

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