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 Post subject: Re: #188 Otenki vs DeFlow
Post #21 Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:46 pm 
Lives with ko
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm11 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , 3 2 . . . O . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I feel bad about my move that fixed his weakness... The influence that I am building is useless and this pushing fixes his weakness. A very bad exchange!

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 Post subject: Re: #188 Otenki vs DeFlow
Post #22 Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:10 am 
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[go]$$cm11 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , 3 2 . . . O . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Observers:

Ok so any sane man would F13 here but since i'm not sane thats not what i'm going to play.
I'm going to lurk him into a fight for the center. I have to be very carefull about my own groups when he cuts me here though.
My plan is to create chaos and running groups in the center if he should cut me.
I think its not an overplay but a very difficult situation I'm creating... I love difficult games :rambo:

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Post #23 Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:32 am 
Honinbo
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For beginners. The :b17: hane is asking for trouble: if B has completely read out that it works, great.
Otherwise, B is creating a mess unnecessarily for himself (helping W by giving W opportunities).
Simply extending with :b1: is already so much profit for B:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X O . . . O . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #188 Otenki vs DeFlow
Post #24 Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:26 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm11 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , 3 2 . . . O . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 8 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Candidate moves
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm11 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , 3 2 . . . O . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 6 . . c . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . a 7 b . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Okay, so I still can't tenuki from this or my group will be surrounded, which is the worst thing that can happen apart from death, because it will give my opponent many many forcing moves on the outside.

A is an interesting cut, B is submissive but safe and C is the shape point.

I disregarded B because it is just to submissive, and I disregarded C for the following reason:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm11 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , 3 2 . . . O . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 4 a . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 6 . . 8 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 7 9 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

After 19 I have no good protection against the follow-up at A.

Two other arguments for A are these; 11 and 15 have a shortage of liberties, while any ladder to the lower right would be in my favour.

If I were black, the safe move would have been to play A myself, instead of 17. If this would happen, I would certainly play at C and black would gain sente to play somewhere else

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 Post subject: Re: #188 Otenki vs DeFlow
Post #25 Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:22 am 
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We did not play a single joseki or noseki yet, soon people are going to get disapointed in us :D

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm11 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , 3 2 . . . O . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 9 8 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Observers:

I'm going to simplify because I read a mistake in my original plan. No more rambo brute force style :rambo:
For reference my original plan:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm11 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X O . . . O . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . 3 X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 2 X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 O O . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . 5 . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #188 Otenki vs DeFlow
Post #26 Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:37 am 
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Rank: KGS 5 kyu
KGS: DefLow
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm11 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , 3 2 . . . O . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 9 8 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #188 Otenki vs DeFlow
Post #27 Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:42 am 
Lives in gote
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Posts: 415
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
Liked others: 43
Was liked: 32
Rank: EGF 2k
Universal go server handle: tygempanda
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm11 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X O . . . O . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Observers:
Yes there is a new plan. Only it depends a bit on what he does next, so lets see what white does.

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 Post subject: Re: #188 Otenki vs DeFlow
Post #28 Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:42 am 
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Rank: KGS 5 kyu
KGS: DefLow
Universal go server handle: DeFlow
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X O . . . O . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O X 2 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Edit: I'm sorry, I edited my move 5 min after I posted it. It won't happen again!

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 Post subject: Re: #188 Otenki vs DeFlow
Post #29 Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:05 am 
Lives in gote
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Posts: 415
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
Liked others: 43
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Rank: EGF 2k
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X O . . . O . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O X 2 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Observers:
Time to split the bottom. I'm fairly known with the orthodox fuseki so I think it is the right spot in this case.
If I would have played modern by aproaching the hoshi from within then he would have pincered and created a nice framework.

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 Post subject: Re: #188 Otenki vs DeFlow
Post #30 Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:50 am 
Lives with ko
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Posts: 162
Liked others: 29
Was liked: 29
Rank: KGS 5 kyu
KGS: DefLow
Universal go server handle: DeFlow
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X O . . . O . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O X 2 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . 4 . 3 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #188 Otenki vs DeFlow
Post #31 Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:28 am 
Lives in gote
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Posts: 415
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
Liked others: 43
Was liked: 32
Rank: EGF 2k
Universal go server handle: tygempanda
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X O . . . O . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O X 2 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . 4 . 3 . . . 5 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Post #32 Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:43 am 
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For beginners. Instead of :w24:, capturing :bc: with :w1: was the only move for W:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X O . . . O . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O B O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

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Post #33 Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:51 am 
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DeFlow wrote:
Edit: I'm sorry, I edited my move 5 min after I posted it. It won't happen again!
Originally, :w18: was posted as the outside hane at H13; a few moments later, it was edited to become the cut at F13. So that's already two undos.

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Post #34 Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:58 am 
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For beginners. Usually, it's bad for B to allow W to capture :bc: on :w24: with :w1::
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X O . . . O . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O B O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

So instead of :b23:, B has to run with :b1:, and a fight continues:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X O . . . O . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O 1 3 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #188 Otenki vs DeFlow
Post #35 Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:05 pm 
Honinbo
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otenki,
otenki wrote:
For reference my original plan:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm11 Prisoners:
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X O . . . O . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . 3 X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 2 X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 B W X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 W W . B . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . 5 . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
Could you re-number the above variation (including the marked stones), starting with a move 1, instead of a :b11: ? :)

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 Post subject: Re: #188 Otenki vs DeFlow
Post #36 Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:08 am 
Lives with ko
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Rank: KGS 5 kyu
KGS: DefLow
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X O . . . O . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O X 2 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . 4 . 3 . . . 5 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I know that invading the three space extension is also a real option in this situation, but I don't want to settle things just yet. If white solidifies his three space extension, I'll approach in the top right, if he does not, I will invade it next turn.

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 Post subject: Re: #188 Otenki vs DeFlow
Post #37 Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:22 am 
Lives in gote
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X O . . . O . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O X 2 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 O 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . 4 . 3 . . . 5 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



Observers:

So I'm just going to start writing this and maybe by writing this is will come up with a move because I'm a bit clueless :p

There is so much unsettled problematic possitions on this board that I don't know what to do first. Probably my next move is going to be a mistake so stronger players please comment on what I should have chosen here.

So there is still aji in the cutting stone, it's dangerous for white. Howhever if I just try to pick a fight it will get me influence on the bottom which I don't think I need. I want to use it for building a wall on the right side. I have to read to see how I can do that.

Ok so we have my 3 space extension which for some reason he did not invade. My guess is that he wants to invade it without me having a sente move on the corner. So I kindoff have to protect this group. Howhever I NEED sente in order to build my wall i desprately need :-)

Ok I think I have a strategy howhever it will be very hard. I will build my wall (or just a bit of influence) by using the aji in the center stones and attacking the center top group. The hard part will be to do this in sente so I can come back to the lower part in order to handle my group. I will stablise the group by jumping one point on the left side of my extension so i can invade the lower left later unless he protects... Lets see what really happens and if I can find a way to do all of this in sente :P

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 Post subject: Re: #188 Otenki vs DeFlow
Post #38 Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:59 am 
Lives with ko
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Rank: KGS 5 kyu
KGS: DefLow
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X O . . . O . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O X 2 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 O 7 8 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . 4 . 3 . . . 5 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Although these two stones give him thickness in the corner (no more cut aji at E15 and 16), it is gote and I just want to invade his 3-space on the bottom. =]

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 Post subject: Re: #188 Otenki vs DeFlow
Post #39 Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:52 am 
Lives in gote
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Rank: EGF 2k
Universal go server handle: tygempanda
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X O . . . O . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O X 2 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 O 7 8 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . 4 . 3 . . . 5 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



Observers:

He wants sente for some reason and its not to protect his group on the top so lets see why.

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 Post subject: Re: #188 Otenki vs DeFlow
Post #40 Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:06 am 
Lives with ko
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Posts: 162
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Rank: KGS 5 kyu
KGS: DefLow
Universal go server handle: DeFlow
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X O . . . O . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O X 2 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 O 7 8 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . 4 . 3 . . . 5 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I will invade his three space extension now. I think he either has to connect over top or on the bottom, and both choices leave him eyeless and semi-weak. Either I will build up influence to use to create a moyo on the bottom, or I'll get some territory.

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