Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm13
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . 1 O , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Given that we reach this position, I wonder whether probing with helps me in deciding how to handle the left...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm13
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . 1 O , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Like this Black feels a bit cramped and White might be induced to kill the Aji in the top right corner immediately. On the other side, I really don't like White's bottom left formation. Both extensions are low, so 3*3 seems like a net gain for Black.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm13 at 'a'
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . 1 O , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . 6 a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . c 5 . 7 . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . 0 . O . 8 . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Like this I feel that it's not so easy to see who gets the last big point in the opening.
With the Joseki White played in the bottom right (one point farther to the right than I anticipated), I feel that the 'b'-'c'-exchange might be better than jumping down with .

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm13
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . 1 O , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . 2 b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . c . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

If White defends the corner I'm thinking about splitting here. If White approaches with 'a' I can later play 'b' and attack this stone.
If White takes 'c' I still think his shape is not so good and 3*3 is splendid for Black.

We'll see : D

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B
$$ , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . 7 . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . b 6 . . |
$$ , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ . . . 8 . . 3 . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$--------------------+[/go]

Perhaps you fell into the proverb trap.

(b) is an occasional pro move.
And if was instead on the 4th line,
then (b) contacting the "weak" stone is even more popular,
although still second choice as a pro move.

In the 4-4 situation, the top pro moves (x) and (y)
are both attaches, and the popular one is (x) which contacts
the "weaker" stone. In this case, (y) is an occasional move.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . 3 . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . x 2 . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ , . . . y . 1 . . . |
$$ . . . . 4 . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$--------------------+[/go]

I don't think I fell into a proverb trap, rather I was lazy in using few words and chose one proverb which is applicable here rather than make a detailed explanation. In a bit more detail:

In a double approach joseki (be it 3-4 or 4-4) the corner stone nearly always wants to come out and separate the two approach stones. You want to do so with a good shape. In your 4-4 example the x attach on the pincered stone makes a good shape with the pincer stone: if white hanes then black cuts. So in the pick-an-appropriate-proverb-to-post-poc-justify-your-move style it would be "connect your stones". In this game the attach doesn't make a good shape with the pincer stone: it's too far away. In the 4-4 2-space-high pincer double approach joseki the old fashion was to attach on the "stronger" non-pincered stone, but nowadays it's much more normal to attach on the weaker pincered stone because the pincer ends up in a good shape point.

With a tighter white counter pincer with this 3-4 3 space pincer, black is more likely to attach because it's a narrower gap to come out between the two approach stones so the kosumi doesn't work so well (though can still be possible). And with 4-4 double approach kosumi is just a bit of a slack shape and ends up somewhat inefficiently not on the bulge point if they 3-3 and you block.

The Suzuki-Kitani Small Joseki Dictionary does not like the jump attachment (on an empty board, OC ). For instance,



Note It makes look misplaced.

Just to tempt SoDesuNe.

So you were being lazy.

And threw out a proverb which we all know is notorious for being ambiguous.
That proverb applies in some cases; it fails miserably in others.
I don't know the percentages. I don't even know if it's even 50/50.
If that proverb is even close to 50/50, then it's a huge trap for beginners.
Who knows ? Maybe that proverb is applicable for less than 10% of all cases ?
You admitted in another recent thread you also fall into these traps -- we all do.

You say the proverb is applicable here -- is that your opinion or a consensus from pros ?
You stated it as a fact.

Bill showed one joseki dictonary instance which didn't like the result, for an empty board.

My reason in saying the attach was strange was not that first I thought of the proverb "don't attach to weak stones" and thought that implies it was bad. One important reason I say it is strange is because I have studied joseki and I know, thanks to the combined wisdom of many professional players, such as Suzuki/Kitani as Bill posted, that it is not the normal move in that joseki. The point about not combining well with the pincer is important. When white switches to the lower side black would like to gobble up the initial approach on a large scale. Of course he often does that by playing the r4 attach (is it right to call this an attach?) after the kosumi and white extends on the lower side, so we could say "Oh no! black just attached to a weak stone". However that's not really what we normally mean by an attachment you shouldn't do to weak stones as black has the 3-4 stone diagonally adjacent and the kosumi nearby too so white can't hane and put the attachment stone under liberty pressure to gain momentum to settle his group (and extend is heavy too thanks to black surroundings). That r4 move should be understood for its purpose of prevent white from making eyes by sliding to the corner, and securing a base for black in the corner too.

By giving a short "By contacting the weak stone you help it get stronger" when typing in bed on a phone I hoped to give you something to think about on your own journey of self discovery of why the attachment is not so normal in this shape. But yes I was also lazy to type loads of explanation.

As planned.

Now I need to decide on my 12. I'm assuming he'll play to seal in , although there's still enough aji that life might be something later, will have to do some detailed reading before I aji-keshi it out, but it's not a shape I can remember off hand.

So, that being the case, completing the top left shimari looks pretty normal and decent, but I'm also wondering about playing on the left edge and effectively double approaching his approach stone (if that makes any sense - something like this anyway):

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm11
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

I sort of like this result really ... I just wonder if it's a bit "points-light" though.

Either way, it feels better than my original plan of something like:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm11
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . 2 . a . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . 5 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

With the shimari in the top right, this no longer seems very interesting to me, and I can't play high very comfortably without making that "a" very annoying.

topazg's plan,

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm11
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

is interesting.

My first thought was like his first thought, the extension on the top side:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . 2 . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

After all, it prevents the double wing and aims at . But it leaves the left side wide open. I would worry about .

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . 3 . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Another thought was this shimari, which makes bigger, but aims to get the last move of the opening with .

I also thought of this move:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . 2 . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

The shoulder blow aims at reducing Black's incipient moyo and then returning to the top left corner if White keeps sente.

But topazg's idea has inspired me to think about a play on the left side.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Similar to the Chinese formation, anywhere Black plays on the left side is a bit awkward.

All things considered, I lean towards the high shimari. But I doubt that White will play there.

So everyone thinks black will play q6 not r4? Not sure which one I'd choose as black, nor how it would change what I do as white.

Edit: Well I suppose SoDesuNe did say that, but I think it's not the only choice.

So far, so forced?
Now let's see what he does : )

For everyone just tuning in: see my previous comments for my take on the position ^^

Not really, there was another plausible choice for your last move IMO. Did you consider anything else? One bit of mental discipline I recommend is to always consider at least 3 candidate moves (yes even if you have a crucial stone in atari and there's only one sane move of extend follow the discipline as other times you think there's only one move there isn't). It's a good way to overcome bad instincts and broaden your horizons.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm10
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

I was not surprised by SoDesuNe's choice of . It was popular in ancient games with similar positions. Players were even more territorial than players today, yet they valued the outside influence of . And SoDesuNe indicated that he has played over some of those ancient games.

Note: does not capture the stone. A normal continuation is , but it would not be good at the moment.

Uberdude has been more than hinting at the possibility of the diagonal attachment, which, OC, should be considered.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm10
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 W . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Possible continuations are the stand and the shoulder blow. The stand is terrible, and the shoulder blow is bad now and probably would be bad later, as well. is attractive because it secures the corner and it is difficult for to run.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm10
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . W . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

So the game for White is probably to sacrifice with plays like , sooner or later. Because of the possibility of the capping play or the invasion of the top right side, the top side is less urgent after this choice of .

As I wrote, I'm not that knowledgeable when it comes to Joseki but I considered (very briefly) kicking with R4. Though I felt that it was just fighting for the sake of a fight. Especially since White defended his bottom group and my gain or goal is somewhat nebulous to me.

It also flashed across my mind to Tenuki but it just seemed very bad. White splits my position - maybe immediately - and I will end up with a weak corner and my pincer-stone becomes a potential target.

But it's true, as can be seen from my post two days ago, I already fixated on this move from the beginning. I guess I saw it in some pro games and essentially just copied.

Ok, I'm going for it. I find I enjoy trying out my random ideas when I have them, and it's only a game. No harm done even if it doesn't work out, well, until someone loses an eye

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm10
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . B . . . . |
$$ | . . b , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Peculiar!
I wouldn't have played this move. Hard to explain...
I feel that like this White's stones are not really working together. The relation to the top left corner seems a bit strange, like making an extension from a Shimari without a Shimari in place.
I don't know about the fourth line, too. I'm pretty thick at the bottom right and can easily reduce any center from the bottom by shoulder-hitting.

Playing 'a' was my first instinct. Maybe I can cut off and make it look a bit misplaced.
'b' also crossed my mind, but I don't think White will press me down with 'a' (which I consider good for Black because I don't think a framework can easily happen in this game due to the marked black stone) but counter-pincer and then he can easily play on both sides, making a good play.

I'm again a bit shaky when it comes the Joseki.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm13
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . B . . . . |
$$ | . 4 2 a . d . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . 3 1 . c . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . b 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Is correct or does White play at 'a'? Would look a bit funny, though. I also have to decide whether playing at 'b' is better but I don't really think so. undercuts my base anyway, so making shape towards the center seems better.
After , Black 'c' becomes an important shape point. I guess for White 'd' is more solid. But again due the low marked black stone, I'm not too concerned about the top becoming too large.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm18
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X X . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . c O . 1 . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

So what is White's plan? Attacking with and making the bottom left kinda bigish?
But that's not really severe, is it? I see at least three options to make shape. I might Tenuki and deal with the bottom left right away...

I need some more time to think about this and other possibilities =)