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 Post subject: Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d
Post #141 Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:48 pm 
Gosei
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@jts
I imagine Magicwand gave a more definitive answer already but anyway;

A brief verbose chronology:
43 : I felt top represented enough points for me to win the game.

45 : White just took the extremely large point at c11, and black has no severe followup on the right, which I had misjudged.

47 : Still the only 'good' way I can see to build the centre from top.

50 - 51 : White plays a harsh reduction / limiting move against black's centre, which he has dedicated too many stones to to win another way. Somewhat panicked, black hopes to incite a fight.

54 - 55 : White plays a thick tenuki for 54, allowing black to isolate the centre stones.

To present : White acquiesces to living locally and black gets a wall facing his previously thin bottom position, as well as C10. In sente, apparently.

Epilogue: White still does not have clearly defined life, which black will (try to) exploit to solidify top.


PS:
1. I don't remember saying I was trying to kill white? If I did, it was a moment of idiocy.

2. I consider the result so far a success for black. NB you are talking to the three-stones-weaker-player.

3. Doing an off-the-cuff, solid-points recount: White is up by just over komi, including komi. Black has sente. Black and white should gain points in centre-top, favouring black. Black can gain points on bottom.

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 Post subject: Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d
Post #142 Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:23 pm 
Dies with sente
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Posts: 85
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Rank: EGF 5d
KGS: pancake
Wbaduk: mictel
DGS: frappant
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 black: 1 white: 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . W O X . . . . . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . O . . X . O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . O O O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . O . O X O X . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X X X X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d
Post #143 Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:29 pm 
Oza
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@loons

Okay, gotcha. I think I was misled by some center plays that seemed ultra-aggressive into thinking that you were making the game revolve around an attack in the center. I'm completely unable to count this board, which is (one reason of many) why I wasn't sure what the long term plan was.

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 Post subject: Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d
Post #144 Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:44 pm 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm73 black: 1 white: 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . W O X . . . . . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . O . . X . O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . O O O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . O . O X O X . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X X X X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Eh, I sort-of would rather tenuki to bottom (probably 'm') already, but a play here would almost be sente for white, controls how many points white has in the 'a' area, and affects the health/usefulness of the marked black stones (a play around 'b' later nets some points).
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm73 black: 1 white: 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O O X z . . a . . O b . B . . . . |
$$ | . . O X x . O . . X . O B . . . B . . |
$$ | . . X y . . . . . O O O B . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . O . O X O B . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X X X X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . m . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
If 'x', 'y' then 'z' seems clearly bad for black, so I will tenuki white 'x', which I am sort-of expecting. If white tenuki now, I will aim to come back and make white's life painful.

@jts
At move :b57: , I did decide to give white a weak centre group and attack it rather than build and defend a centre moyo. Looking back, taking and defending the moyo would probably have been better, but it did seem risky to me then and still does a bit now; white could try and destroy all the points, considering he had no weak group/was generally thick and the moyo would be big but also a bit open and thin. Also remembering white is higher ranked.

So I chose to cut and attack white's group instead. I imagine I could have done better. Anyway, an attack in the centre has been/is happening and the game *does* revolve around it. Keeping a group unsettled to make your opponent play defensively/submissively is what attack is, right?

Essentially, I was betting that this exchange has been good for black:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm73 black: 1 white: 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . # . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . Q Q # . . . . . . Q . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . Q . . # . Q # . . . X . . |
$$ | . . # , . . . . . Q Q Q # . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . Q . Q # Q # . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . # # # # . . . Q . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d
Post #145 Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:10 am 
Dies with sente
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I think his last move was rather small, he could've put some more pressure on me at least.

The first thing that pops into my mind is the atari below, but following the sequence it might have some complications.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 black: 1 white: 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X W 1 O . . X . O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X 2 . 3 . . . O O O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . O a O X O X . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X X X X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Suddenly there's a cut at a now, so my group doesn't look so alive.

Then I thought about simply connecting to the group below.. However, this is just dame points. Another problem is: can I connect in one move?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm73 black: 1 white: 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . O . . X . O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . O O O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . O . O X O X . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . a X X X X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . b . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

I could look at a or b here. b looks like bad shape to me, he can for example play at a and cut. So are there any complications after a?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 black: 1 white: 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . O . . X . O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . O O O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . O . O X O X . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . W X X X X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 6 2 1 5 . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . 3 4 . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Looks rock solid to me. Eventhough it's worth nothing, I can't see anything else. Also, after connecting I can gain some points in the center if he doesn't connect somehow.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm73 black: 1 white: 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . O . . X . O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . O O O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . O . O X O X . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . W X X X X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d
Post #146 Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:39 pm 
Gosei
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Posts: 1378
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm75 black: 1 white: 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . O . . X . O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . O O O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . O . O X O X . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . W X X X X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

I feel like this is now the biggest thing. I would like to hane on white's move (avoid bad shape), but I think my move is more urgent. Hopefully I haven't missed anything.

*Yes, my cut here is vulgar style, however, I cannot find a better way (see my post ages ago).

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 Post subject: Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d
Post #147 Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 5:11 am 
Dies with sente
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Rank: EGF 5d
KGS: pancake
Wbaduk: mictel
DGS: frappant
I suspected this was going to happen.. It's quite large, so after this resolves I will count again.

The reason I play here is because there's a lot of aji left if he extends the way he wants to.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm75 black: 1 white: 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . O . . X . O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . O O O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . O . O X O X . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X X X X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X W . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d
Post #148 Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 12:51 pm 
Gosei
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Posts: 1378
Location: wHam!lton, Aotearoa
Liked others: 253
Was liked: 105
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm77 black: 1 white: 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . O . . X . O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . O O O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . O . O X O X . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X X X X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X W . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O 1 , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

...The other way gets captured...

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 Post subject: Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d
Post #149 Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:45 am 
Dies with sente
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Posts: 85
Location: Utrecht, Netherlands
Liked others: 4
Was liked: 13
Rank: EGF 5d
KGS: pancake
Wbaduk: mictel
DGS: frappant
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm77 black: 1 white: 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . O . . X . O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . O O O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . O . O X O X . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X X X X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . W O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O X , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Huge for both sides, and semi-sente. If he plays a, I will play b next, hoping to take sente out of that.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm77 black: 1 white: 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . O . . X . O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . O O O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . O . O X O X . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X X X X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . W O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . a X O . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O X , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . b . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d
Post #150 Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 4:32 pm 
Gosei
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Posts: 1378
Location: wHam!lton, Aotearoa
Liked others: 253
Was liked: 105
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm79 black: 1 white: 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . O 1 . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . O . . X . O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . O O O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . O . O X O X . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X X X X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . W O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O X , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

  :b75: seems to have been a mistake. What can ya do. I think I can abandon it and treat N3 and O4 as some kind of miai.

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 Post subject: Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d
Post #151 Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:55 am 
Dies with sente
User avatar

Posts: 85
Location: Utrecht, Netherlands
Liked others: 4
Was liked: 13
Rank: EGF 5d
KGS: pancake
Wbaduk: mictel
DGS: frappant
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm79 black: 1 white: 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . O X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . O . . X . O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . O O O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . O . O X O X . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X X X X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O X , X . . |
$$ | . W O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


His move was certainly big, but this one looks quite a bit bigger...

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 Post subject: Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d
Post #152 Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 3:39 am 
Dies with sente

Posts: 80
Liked others: 14
Was liked: 1
Rank: 1d
GD Posts: 95
My rough count:
BLACK:
upper: 38
left: 8
ll corner: 14
total: 60

WHITE:
UL corner: 22
UR corner: 12
LL corner: 18
right side: 8
total: 60

:D
Image

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 Post subject: Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d
Post #153 Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 6:02 am 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
k43r wrote:
My rough count:
BLACK:
upper: 38
left: 8
ll corner: 14
total: 60

WHITE:
UL corner: 22
UR corner: 12
LL corner: 18
right side: 8
total: 60

:D


that is very accurate count. impressed.
but...i feel that black is ahead. because of thickness.

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 Post subject: Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d
Post #154 Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 3:58 pm 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1378
Location: wHam!lton, Aotearoa
Liked others: 253
Was liked: 105
Belated Merry Christmas and a happy new year.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81 black: 1 white: 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . O X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . O . . X . O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . O O O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . O . O X O X . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X X X X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . 1 . . . . . . . . O O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O X , X . . |
$$ | . W O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Right; I never don't miss that move.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81 black: 1 white: 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O O B . . . . . . O X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O B . . O . . X . O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . O O O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . O . O X O X . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X X X X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . a . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . 1 . . . . . . . . O O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O X , X . . |
$$ | . W O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
I jumped to try and involve the marked stones, and begin creating some kind of aji at 'a'.

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 Post subject: Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d
Post #155 Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:29 am 
Dies with sente
User avatar

Posts: 85
Location: Utrecht, Netherlands
Liked others: 4
Was liked: 13
Rank: EGF 5d
KGS: pancake
Wbaduk: mictel
DGS: frappant
Thank you very much! I wish you a happy new year as well. :)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81 black: 1 white: 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . O X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . O . . X . O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . O O O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . O . O X O X . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X X X X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . X . W . . . . . . O O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O X , X . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


This doesn't need a lot of explanation, I just have to connect here.

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 Post subject: Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d
Post #156 Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 3:52 pm 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1378
Location: wHam!lton, Aotearoa
Liked others: 253
Was liked: 105
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm83 black: 1 white: 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . O X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . O . . X . O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . O O O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . O . O X O X . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X X X X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . X . W . . . . . . O O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O X , X . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O 1 . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Nothing really doing. A few points.

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 Post subject: Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d
Post #157 Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:06 am 
Dies with sente
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Posts: 85
Location: Utrecht, Netherlands
Liked others: 4
Was liked: 13
Rank: EGF 5d
KGS: pancake
Wbaduk: mictel
DGS: frappant
Sorry for the ultra-late reply! I totally forgot about this game for a moment (dutch championships and exams).
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm83 black: 1 white: 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . O X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . O . . X . O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . O O O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . O . O X O X . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X X X X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . X . O . . . . . . O O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O X , X . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . W . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d
Post #158 Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:46 am 
Gosei
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Posts: 1378
Location: wHam!lton, Aotearoa
Liked others: 253
Was liked: 105
Oh, cool, how did the dutch championships go? Are there SGFs anywhere?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm85 black: 1 white: 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . O X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . O . . X . O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . O O O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . O . O X O X . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X X X X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . X . O . . . . . . O O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O X , X . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . W 1 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Gotta be consistent with my last move. At least I become thick from this exchange, so I have less headaches about this area. I'm wondering what's going to constitute sente along the right.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm85
$$ . . . O X . X . . . . |
$$ . X . O X . . . X . . |
$$ . O O O X . . , . x . |
$$ . O X O X . . . O . . |
$$ X X X X . z . O i . . |
$$ . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ . . . . . O O . O . . |
$$ . . . . . . X O . y . |
$$ . X . . . O X , X . . |
$$ X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ X . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ O 1 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------+[/go]
The reliance on the eye at 'i' has to give me something. Albeit, it's not my sente...

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 Post subject: Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d
Post #159 Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:47 am 
Dies with sente
User avatar

Posts: 85
Location: Utrecht, Netherlands
Liked others: 4
Was liked: 13
Rank: EGF 5d
KGS: pancake
Wbaduk: mictel
DGS: frappant
The results are here: nkgo.octalo.com. Some of the SGF's are on the eurogotv1 and eurogotv2 accounts. I got 2 out of 4 on the first weekend and hoping to do the same in the next weekend (tomorrow and the day after). That would mean I'll keep my place in the championships, which is pretty good considering I'm the weakest (on paper) one in the field.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm85 black: 1 white: 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . O X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . O . . X . O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . O O O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . O . O X O X . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X X X X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . X . O . . . . . . O O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O X , X . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . W O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: 138. Pancake 4d vs Loons 1d
Post #160 Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:19 am 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1378
Location: wHam!lton, Aotearoa
Liked others: 253
Was liked: 105
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm87 black: 1 white: 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . O X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . O . . X . O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . O O O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . O . O X O X . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X X X X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . X . O . . . . . . O O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . X . . . O X , X . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X 1 . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . W O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm87 black: 1 white: 0
$$ | . . . . . . . O X X X X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . X . O . . . . . . O O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . b X O . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . a X . . . O X , X . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . O X . . . c . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . 1 . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . W O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
If I play this :b87: , I feel 'a' may be more interesting for white sometime, as well as leaving another ko threat (I think). I want to play something like B or C anyway (and I think I get a chance before white) so the distance of the jump down there shouldn't matter.

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