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 Post subject: Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)
Post #41 Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:10 pm 
Tengen
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Posts: 4511
Location: Chatteris, UK
Liked others: 1589
Was liked: 656
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . 7 . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Ok, somewhat obscure move, but I have a plan:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm29 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . O . 1 . W . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . 3 . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'm aiming for this cut, although I'm not sure quite how well it's going to pan out, and it also re-opens the possibility of playing in the 3-3 in the top left, which I really want a bit more than the slide.


For beginners:
Ok, starting back a few moves:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . B . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So, this probably looks a bit curious. There are a bunch of important principles to bear in mind when trying to come up with a good move here, but the leading one in my mind when picking this is the following:

Don't get sealed in!

As a rule of thumb, this one's a pretty important one. It's a group's worst nightmare (short of death, but even that can sometimes be less bad!) to be sealed into the edge with no direction for development. As a result, what I really wanted to avoid was something like this happening:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . z . . . . . . z . . . 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . 1 . O . . . 5 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . 2 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . 6 . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . y . . . . x . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . x y . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . y . . . . x . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Now, Black's group at the top can't expand for points, the area around "x" has been neutralised, White's started to gain the potential for some territory around "y", and the points at "z" are completely sente for White as Black's only hope for two eyes is to create them internally at the top.

Letting your opponent get outside points in sente as you scrabble to make two eyes inside your own group is pretty much always really bad.

So, playing this move guarantees White is the one that has to find somewhere to live. However, in itself, that doesn't make it a no-brainer good move. Without some form of plan to follow, this could easily happen:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . W 4 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . 3 . 0 . O . . 6 1 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . . . . X 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . B . 8 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . 9 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Leading to my next principle:

Stones on dame are worth 0 points

Maybe Black's a bit unnecessarily passive here, but the bottom line now is that Black's got no real points, both adjacent White groups are strong and alive, and Black's marked stone is almost meaningless (it does have value in that it makes it hard for White to create outside thickness here, but it's not actually done a lot to earn Black anything useful points-wise yet). Splitting moves are good, particularly when it renders at least one (ideally both) of the opponent's groups as weak enough that they need to either run (which can be chased for thickness) or have to play internally to create two eyes, allowing you to build outside thickness that can be then turned into some useful profit. Splitting two strong groups is pretty much always bad, as it can't be easily turned into territory (you have two strong opponent groups outside), and it doesn't threaten anything.

So, how to turn a move like this into something resembling an actual plan of action?

Well, I didn't want to get sealed in, and I succeeded there. White's now happily playing to make a base, and if I let him manage that too easily without compensation, I've failed somewhere. I quite liked the idea of aiming for the following:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . O . . . 3 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . . 5 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . B . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . x . . x . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . x . . x . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Building a useful wall of influence facing the right side, with some reasonable chance of making profit at the "x" points. However, White played a useful exchange first making it harder than I'd like to follow this plan. However, despite this, I think White's shape is somewhat thin, and I can still work towards the same goal:


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 W . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . 1 . O . 3 . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . 5 . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . B . . O . . . 7 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X . 6 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


:w6: here is the bogie move that I can't find a resistance I'm completely satisfied with, but the principle remains. I don't want to get sealed in, and I don't want that poor marked Black stone to end up on dame serving no purpose. Worst case scenario I still score more points on the top edge, and my shape is sound.

As I was once told by a very strong amateur: "Always have a plan. Even a very bad plan is better than no plan at all". As a result, I don't want to just play a single move that follows basic principles, I want to have a plan behind it that gives me a result that I'm aiming for (in theory at least). It may be not a good result in the end, but at least I aimed for it and tried to make my stones mean something.


This post by topazg was liked by 2 people: Bonobo, Splatted
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 Post subject: Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)
Post #42 Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:48 pm 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
17R. 3-3 pt

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"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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 Post subject: Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)
Post #43 Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:50 pm 
Tengen
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Posts: 4511
Location: Chatteris, UK
Liked others: 1589
Was liked: 656
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . 7 . O . 9 . 8 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Ploughing ahead with the plan outlined on the previous move.

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 Post subject: Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)
Post #44 Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:51 pm 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
P18

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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 Post subject: Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)
Post #45 Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:54 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4511
Location: Chatteris, UK
Liked others: 1589
Was liked: 656
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . 1 . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


And again ... now we get to see whether my plan had any actual merit :D

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 Post subject: Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)
Post #46 Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:58 pm 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
S15
this is huge success for white

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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 Post subject: Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)
Post #47 Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:09 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4511
Location: Chatteris, UK
Liked others: 1589
Was liked: 656
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . 1 . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . . 2 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X . 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Ok, so this is a reasonably expected result from My plan. It's a loss in the corner, but White doesn't have much scope for expansion, and Black's outside thickness seems reasonable. The question in my mind is what White can do to the right hand side. My profit there determines whether or not this is a success for White or for Black, and that's not clear to me right now. Both the top left and bottom left corner are still invadable, and I have no weak groups, which makes me happy enough, but it's also a matter of finding ways of collecting points.

Either way, onwards we go...

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 Post subject: Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)
Post #48 Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:14 pm 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
R15

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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 Post subject: Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)
Post #49 Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:17 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4511
Location: Chatteris, UK
Liked others: 1589
Was liked: 656
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . 1 . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . 4 2 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X 5 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


FWIW, if this ends up being just bad for Black, I should most likely have accepted the weakness of the top group much earlier and played this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . 7 . . . O . 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . 4 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . b . 8 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I very nearly did play this line, but it just irked me to feel the need to defend with moves like :b27: and have the middle turned into something like this, and have to decide between points like "a" and "b". Running fights with magicwand never turn out well :P

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Post #50 Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:27 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
R4 peep

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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 Post subject: Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)
Post #51 Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:44 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4511
Location: Chatteris, UK
Liked others: 1589
Was liked: 656
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . 1 . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . 4 2 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X 5 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O . . O . . 7 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think this thickness is important. For one thing, it's either good points or useful outside thickness, whereas blocking the other side both leaves bad aji and, to be honest, a flavour of overconcentration to me.

PS If anyone following the game actually wants to ask me something, please do.

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Post #52 Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:06 pm 
Tengen

Posts: 4380
Location: North Carolina
Liked others: 499
Was liked: 733
Rank: AGA 3k
GD Posts: 65
OGS: Hyperpape 4k
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X 3 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O 2 1 O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O . . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This feels crude, but does it work?

If it does, can white play more simply:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X 1 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O . . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
Occupy Babel!

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Post #53 Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:18 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
R7
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O . . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
hi might run out of real estate soon. If he loses sente now...he doesnt have any chance of winning this game.

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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 Post subject: Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)
Post #54 Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:29 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4511
Location: Chatteris, UK
Liked others: 1589
Was liked: 656
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X 9 . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O . . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Keeping the corner feels important, if he jumps, so do I:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm40 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . 2 . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O . . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Post #55 Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:58 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
P7 jump
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O . . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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 Post subject: Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)
Post #56 Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:12 am 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4511
Location: Chatteris, UK
Liked others: 1589
Was liked: 656
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . 1 . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O . . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Must ... get ... sente

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 Post subject: Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)
Post #57 Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 11:18 am 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . X . X 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O . . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

probe.. and what i expect
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . 3 . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . 1 5 X 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O . . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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Post #58 Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 11:44 am 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4511
Location: Chatteris, UK
Liked others: 1589
Was liked: 656
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . 3 . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . X . X 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O . . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Interesting ... probe presumably, I am expecting him to play to connect next, or I'm going to have to do some reading about what I can do ... I have some useful thickness around here.

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Post #59 Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 11:47 am 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O . . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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 Post subject: Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)
Post #60 Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:18 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4511
Location: Chatteris, UK
Liked others: 1589
Was liked: 656
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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