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 Post subject: #186 - topazg vs. skydyr
Post #1 Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:07 pm 
Oza

Posts: 2493
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Universal go server handle: skydyr
Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I won nigiri, so I am black.
[hide]I don't have a plan yet, and komoku is kind of my default opening.


Last edited by skydyr on Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: #186 - topazg vs. skydyr
Post #2 Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:09 pm 
Oza

Posts: 2493
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Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
I should emphasize that this is a grudge match. Me against my playing last time I played topazg, and probably him against his as well.

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 Post subject: Re: #186 - topazg vs. skydyr
Post #3 Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:30 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4511
Location: Chatteris, UK
Liked others: 1589
Was liked: 656
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , 1 . . |
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$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


No orthodox for him.

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 Post subject: Re: #186 - topazg vs. skydyr
Post #4 Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:33 pm 
Oza

Posts: 2493
Location: DC
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Was liked: 442
Universal go server handle: skydyr
Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . 3 . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


[hide]Let's go orthodox.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . 3 . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Last edited by skydyr on Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: #186 - topazg vs. skydyr
Post #5 Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:38 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4511
Location: Chatteris, UK
Liked others: 1589
Was liked: 656
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Hmmm, sounds like he wasn't listening. I really want to approach the top right instead of playing in the top left, but I can't really justify it. I just hate playing against the orthodox. Oh well, I guess I should practice it some more.

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 Post subject: Re: #186 - topazg vs. skydyr
Post #6 Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:19 pm 
Oza

Posts: 2493
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Universal go server handle: skydyr
Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


[hide]I've been playing in a way filled with overplay, unreasonable moves, and the creation of weak groups of late. I think I've also been playing wishful moves when I know they don't work. I'm going to try not to do that too much this game.


Last edited by skydyr on Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #7 Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:44 am 
Honinbo
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:)

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 Post subject: Re: #186 - topazg vs. skydyr
Post #8 Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:14 am 
Tengen
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Posts: 4511
Location: Chatteris, UK
Liked others: 1589
Was liked: 656
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Standard orthodox stuff.


For beginners:

It's not wrong to play the wedge at R10, but it's also fairly common to play one closer to the shimari, as the extension from the shimari is typically larger than the extension from the solitary corner stone. As a result, playing closer restricts the size of the possible extension, and still leaves White the two point extension on each side. On the other hand, White ends up closer to Black's thickness after the following relatively common continuation, which is one of the reason I dislike playing against the orthodox:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . |
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$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . 3 . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


And this sort of thing is why I don't like playing against the orthodox - Black ends up with the position I like.

EDIT: I could also approach with "a" which seems particularly common these days in pro games, but I really don't understand well enough how to deal with the position after Black pincers, so I'm trying to play something simple.

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Post #9 Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:27 am 
Honinbo
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For beginners.
topazg wrote:
It's not wrong to play the wedge at R10, but it's fairly common to play one closer to the shimari
Not sure what topazg meant by that.
A database search of 50,744 pro games returned 718 for R10(a), and 33 for R11(d).
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . d . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


This post by EdLee was liked by: logan
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 Post subject: Re: #186 - topazg vs. skydyr
Post #10 Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 7:37 am 
Oza

Posts: 2493
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Universal go server handle: skydyr
Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . , . . . . . , 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . 7 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


[hide]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . , . . . . . , 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . 8 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . M , . . . . . , . . . . 9 , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'm torn between trying to start the middle game by pressuring this group, or breaking up white's potential on the side.

In the future, I'd also prefer getting the bottom side to the top, as I think it's bigger.


Last edited by skydyr on Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: #186 - topazg vs. skydyr
Post #11 Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 8:18 am 
Tengen
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Posts: 4511
Location: Chatteris, UK
Liked others: 1589
Was liked: 656
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . , . . . . . , 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . 7 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Going to take the time to settle my group a bit first ... aiming at the following if Black doesn't pincer:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm7 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . 1 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Maybe :w12: at "a", I don't know, but this is all part of my anti-orthodox policy, regardless of whether it's strictly "good" or not :oops:

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 Post subject: Re: #186 - topazg vs. skydyr
Post #12 Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 7:50 pm 
Oza

Posts: 2493
Location: DC
Liked others: 157
Was liked: 442
Universal go server handle: skydyr
Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . , . . . . . , 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . 7 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

[hide]This is roughly what I expect. I am vaguely fond of this move and it seems fun, but it's a move that is far from standard. That said, it's not demonstrably bad, nor is it a trick as such... more of a special purpose move. Also, quite a few people haven't dealt with it before, though I would not be surprised if topazg has. If you are curious to hear a bit more about it, Peter Mioch's Gentle Joseki articles cover it a little bit, though he probably doesn't want to admit it.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 0 . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 1 . . . |
$$ | . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . 3 2 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I may atari before 7 to climb one line higher, because it's a big point.


Last edited by skydyr on Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: #186 - topazg vs. skydyr
Post #13 Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 8:09 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4511
Location: Chatteris, UK
Liked others: 1589
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Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . , . . . . . , 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . 7 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 8 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Interesting move, I've not seen that one before. I was half tempted to go for territory:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . 9 . . . . . . X . 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


But I think that wall is just too big and :w18: could come under serious pressure. I think the push and cut will give a similar result, but with more aji for me to abuse on the lower side as Black will hopefully be less thick.

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 Post subject: Re: #186 - topazg vs. skydyr
Post #14 Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:01 pm 
Oza

Posts: 2493
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Universal go server handle: skydyr
Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 1 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #186 - topazg vs. skydyr
Post #15 Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:05 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4511
Location: Chatteris, UK
Liked others: 1589
Was liked: 656
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 1 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Maybe something like this perhaps?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 3 X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 1 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . 9 , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #186 - topazg vs. skydyr
Post #16 Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:44 pm 
Oza

Posts: 2493
Location: DC
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Universal go server handle: skydyr
Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 1 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #186 - topazg vs. skydyr
Post #17 Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:52 am 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4511
Location: Chatteris, UK
Liked others: 1589
Was liked: 656
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 1 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Following the plan

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 Post subject: Re: #186 - topazg vs. skydyr
Post #18 Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 11:15 am 
Oza

Posts: 2493
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Universal go server handle: skydyr
Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 3 X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 1 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


[hide]I'm not too worried about white building strength facing upwards because it backs onto black's shimari, which is still strong. So far this is all going according to the plan I mentioned a few moves ago.


Last edited by skydyr on Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: #186 - topazg vs. skydyr
Post #19 Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 11:41 am 
Gosei

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Enjoying the game so far! Keep it up guys!

Obs:
I always find it interesting how both players will be following the same plan and both feel ok. Is this typical? I always feel (not necessarily correctly) like one side is getting a better deal.

In this case, I like the deal that topazg is getting here. The shimari is facing an increasingly strong white group. It looks like skydyr will have to effectively use the wall he's just created ... something I'm terrible at doing, so I can't see what kind of plan he could or should make here.

I guess I am really weak in the opening, so take my comments with a grain of salt. :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: #186 - topazg vs. skydyr
Post #20 Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 11:55 am 
Honinbo
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Marcus,
Marcus wrote:
I always find it interesting how both players will be following the same plan and both feel ok. Is this typical?
A few possibilities:
- both sides are correct (the situation is equal; for example, local joseki, or globally early in the opening);
- one side is 100% correct (the situation is a disaster for one side; so the other person must be completely wrong);
- the situation is slightly better for one side, but it's still too early or too close to call, so both sides are still correct;
- the situation is super messy and unclear (so maybe both sides are correct or wrong in thinking they're doing OK, depending on how you look at it);

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