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 Post subject: Re: 44. Violence vs Magicwand
Post #81 Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 2:01 pm 
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Kirby:
Problems and experience build confidence and make you a better player. As you root yourself in the fundamentals and rely on your own abilities, you get a certain sense of how the game will progress if you play somewhere. It's important in a game to keep your confidence up and keep your sense of the game optimistic. I think I'm slightly behind right now, but I have a lot of aji and a lot of chances left to come right back into the game. I imagine Magicwand is also quite confident of his victory. It's this optimism that guides positive moves and more variation, I feel.

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 Post subject: Re: 44. Violence vs Magicwand
Post #82 Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 2:04 pm 
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:roll: :roll: :roll: stephaniekim

edit: my 4years old daughter posted above while i was sleeping.

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Last edited by Magicwand on Fri Jun 04, 2010 6:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 44. Violence vs Magicwand
Post #83 Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 2:11 pm 
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Tryphon wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Move 14 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O 1 2 X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White didn't consider this move (sorry to be late, I come from work and just notice this malkovich game), so it's bad.

Though :
- it's sente
- it gives Black bad shape

Why is it bad then ?


It is aji keshi. Once Black has connected, other threats, such as atari on one of the other stones, disappear.

It loses a ko threat.

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 Post subject: Re: 44. Violence vs Magicwand
Post #84 Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 2:12 pm 
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Tryphon wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Move 14 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O 1 2 X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White didn't consider this move (sorry to be late, I come from work and just notice this malkovich game), so it's bad.

Though :
- it's sente
- it gives Black bad shape

Why is it bad then ?


Because :b2: is worth more than :w1:. This has a lot to do with the fact that :w1: is worth about zero points, but also, Black now can never face damezumari or atari involving G6 or F7. For example, White's attacking move at G8 has lost some of its vigour because of this.

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 Post subject: Re: 44. Violence vs Magicwand
Post #85 Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 2:36 pm 
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Thanks for both your answers.

It's really difficult to distinguish good forcing moves and bad ones :)
I'll hunt oher examples in the game :)

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 Post subject: Re: 44. Violence vs Magicwand
Post #86 Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 5:43 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc move # I don't care either. - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . O X X . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O . . . X O O . . . . . X . . X O . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O X X . . O . . . . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

i must've been drunk. my hanne is ok to play. that was good sleep i had...

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 Post subject: Re: 44. Violence vs Magicwand
Post #87 Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 6:24 pm 
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something like below.. i would have about 15 point lead at least. (guesstimation)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc move # I don't care either. - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O O 4 7 . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . B 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . X . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . O X X . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O . . . X O O . . . . . X . . X O . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O X X . . O . . . . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: 44. Violence vs Magicwand
Post #88 Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 8:00 pm 
Honinbo

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Magicwand wrote:
:roll: :roll: :roll: stephaniekim

edit: my 4years old daughter posted above while i was sleeping.



I thought that it was the alcohol...

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 Post subject: Re: 44. Violence vs Magicwand
Post #89 Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 1:12 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc move # I don't care either. - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . O X X . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O . . . X O O . . . . . X . . X O . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O X X . . O . . . . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The place to fight is here.

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 Post subject: Re: 44. Violence vs Magicwand
Post #90 Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 2:58 am 
Tengen
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc move # I don't care either. - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X B . . . O . . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . O X X . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O . . . X O O . . . . . X . . X O . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O X X . . O . . . . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
at first i was afraid he might play as such.
later i read again..he has nothing.

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 Post subject: Re: 44. Violence vs Magicwand
Post #91 Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 7:33 am 
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Magicwand wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc move # I don't care either. - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X B . . . O . . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . O X X . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O . . . X O O . . . . . X . . X O . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O X X . . O . . . . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
at first i was afraid he might play as such.
later i read again..he has nothing.

My sealed move is c10...looks like a biig ko

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 Post subject: Re: 44. Violence vs Magicwand
Post #92 Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 12:19 pm 
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quantumf wrote:
Magicwand wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc move # I don't care either. - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X B . . . O . . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . O X X . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O . . . X O O . . . . . X . . X O . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O X X . . O . . . . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
at first i was afraid he might play as such.
later i read again..he has nothing.

My sealed move is c10...looks like a biig ko


I agree that this is what is going to happen. I just fear that Violence isn't going to have enough ko threats, and the game might end abruptly.

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 Post subject: Re: 44. Violence vs Magicwand
Post #93 Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:41 pm 
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quantumf wrote:
Magicwand wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc move # I don't care either. - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X B . . . O . . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . O X X . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O . . . X O O . . . . . X . . X O . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O X X . . O . . . . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
at first i was afraid he might play as such.
later i read again..he has nothing.

My sealed move is c10...looks like a biig ko

Could someone please show that Ko? I just cannot find it ...

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 Post subject: Re: 44. Violence vs Magicwand
Post #94 Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:46 pm 
Honinbo

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Now there actually is a Kerby...

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 Post subject: Re: 44. Violence vs Magicwand
Post #95 Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:48 pm 
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Kirby wrote:
Now there actually is a Kerby...

And with a similar avatar too...

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Post #96 Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:48 pm 
Gosei

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tj86430 wrote:
Kirby wrote:
Now there actually is a Kerby...

And with a somewhat similar avatar too...

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 Post subject: Re: 44. Violence vs Magicwand
Post #97 Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 11:29 pm 
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Sorry, I was out for the whole day.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc move # I don't care either. - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . W , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . O . . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . O X X . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O . . . X O O . . . . . X . . X O . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O X X . . O . . . . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Tomorrow, I'm going to get the opening reviewed by a professional. Are you interested in seeing the comments, Magicwand?

I won't be asking him about where to play from here, I doubt we'll get close to here.

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 Post subject: Re: 44. Violence vs Magicwand
Post #98 Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:31 am 
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SpongeBob wrote:
quantumf wrote:
Magicwand wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc move # I don't care either. - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X B . . . O . . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . O X X . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O . . . X O O . . . . . X . . X O . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O X X . . O . . . . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
at first i was afraid he might play as such.
later i read again..he has nothing.

My sealed move is c10...looks like a biig ko

Could someone please show that Ko? I just cannot find it ...

if black descends, white also descends, and black becomes weak. So I think black must counter-atari at c7, and white must capture, and black must atari at b9, and i don't think white has time to connect, so white must counter-atari as well and fight the ko.

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 Post subject: Re: 44. Violence vs Magicwand
Post #99 Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 4:05 am 
Tengen
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professional comment is good.
i am sure observers will learn from professional's comment.
thx.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc move # I don't care either. - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . B X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . O . . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . O X X . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O . . . X O O . . . . . X . . X O . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O X X . . O . . . . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
i will settle with below picture. one thing good about being ahead is that you have too many options. and you can have subpar result and be satisfied.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc move # I don't care either. - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 0 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 8 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 O 2 7 . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . B X O 3 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 O X X . . . O . . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . a b O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . O X X . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O . . . X O O . . . . . X . . X O . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O X X . . O . . . . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson


Last edited by Magicwand on Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: 44. Violence vs Magicwand
Post #100 Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 4:23 am 
Lives in gote
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quantumf wrote:
if black descends, white also descends, and black becomes weak. So I think black must counter-atari at c7, and white must capture, and black must atari at b9, and i don't think white has time to connect, so white must counter-atari as well and fight the ko.




Just for to make it more explicit, I have put it here into Eidogo. Notice that if White cannot fight the Ko because he does not have the threats, he can also connect (like shown). Well, now Magicwand played something else, anyway ...

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