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 Post subject: Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #281 Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 10:38 am 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: white: 8 black: 5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | O O X O X X . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X O X O . O X . . O . X X O . . |
$$ | X O . X O . . O . O O O . O O O X . . |
$$ | . X O X O X . . O X O X O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O O . . X X X X . . . X . . |
$$ | . X . X . X . . . X O O O O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . X X X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O O . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . X X O X O . O . X . . O O X X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . . X . |
$$ | . X . O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . |
$$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . O |
$$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X . O O X . O X O . X . X . X O |
$$ | . X X O O . . . . O X . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O O X . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #282 Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 11:47 am 
Judan
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Rank: 1D AGA
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Kaya handle: Test
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: white: 8 black: 5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | O O X O X X . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X O X O . O X . . O . X X O . . |
$$ | X O . X O . . O . O O O . O O O X . . |
$$ | . X O X O X . . O X O X O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O O . . X X X X . . . X . . |
$$ | . X . X . X . . . X O O O O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . X X X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O O . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . X X O X O . O . X . . O O X X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . . X . |
$$ | . X . O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . |
$$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . O |
$$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X . O O X . O X O . X . X . X O |
$$ | . X X O O . . . . O X . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O O X 1 . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . W 2 3 . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If 2 then 3.

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 Post subject: Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #283 Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:12 pm 
Judan
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Uberdude wrote:
@ Joaz
That move surprised me, but I didn't think much. Did you consider any other moves to defend, and if so how did you count them?


I have to do something to fortify the right side of my group, or I get killed as shown previously.

Trying to fll the ko is suicidal:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: white: 8 black: 5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | O O X O X X . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X O X O . O X . . O . X X O . . |
$$ | X O . X O . . O . O O O . O O O X . . |
$$ | . X O X O X . . O X O X O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O O . . X X X X . . . X . . |
$$ | . X . X . X . . . X O O O O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . X X X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O O . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . X X O X O . O . X . . O O X X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . . X . |
$$ | . X . O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . |
$$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . O |
$$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X . O O X . O X O . X 3 X B X O |
$$ | . X X O O . . . . O X . . . 1 2 X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O O X . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Patching at Q3 does the job, but eventually I have to back up R5:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: white: 8 black: 5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | O O X O X X . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X O X O . O X . . O . X X O . . |
$$ | X O . X O . . O . O O O . O O O X . . |
$$ | . X O X O X . . O X O X O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O O . . X X X X . . . X . . |
$$ | . X . X . X . . . X O O O O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . X X X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O O . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . X X O X O . O . X . . O O X X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . . X . |
$$ | . X . O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . |
$$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . O |
$$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X . O O X . O X O . X . X . X O |
$$ | . X X O O . . . . O X . . . . B X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O O X . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If he wants to fight the ko, I will eventually have to play both Q5 and Q3 ( because he has more ko threats ). So they are almost interchangable.

I prefer Q5 because in some lines that I read, I get to defend with the bamboo joint at O5, which has a 4 point threat to rescue lost stones.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: white: 8 black: 5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | O O X O X X . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X O X O . O X . . O . X X O . . |
$$ | X O . X O . . O . O O O . O O O X . . |
$$ | . X O X O X . . O X O X O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O O . . X X X X . . . X . . |
$$ | . X . X . X . . . X O O O O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . X X X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O O . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . X X O X O . O . X . . O O X X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . . X . |
$$ | . X . O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . |
$$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . O |
$$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X B . B X O . |
$$ | . . . X . O O X . O X O . X . X . X O |
$$ | . X X O O . . . . O X . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O O X . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #284 Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 6:55 pm 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: white: 8 black: 5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | O O X O X X . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X O X O . O X . . O . X X O . . |
$$ | X O . X O . . O . O O O . O O O X . . |
$$ | . X O X O X . . O X O X O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O O . . X X X X . . . X . . |
$$ | . X . X . X . . . X O O O O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . X X X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O O . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . X X O X O . O . X . . O O X X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . . X . |
$$ | . X . O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . |
$$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . O |
$$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X . O O X . O X O . X . X . X O |
$$ | . X X O O . . . . O X . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O O X 1 . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . 2 . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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 Post subject: Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #285 Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 9:53 pm 
Judan
User avatar

Posts: 5539
Location: Banbeck Vale
Liked others: 1102
Was liked: 1456
Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: white: 8 black: 5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | O O X O X X . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X O X O . O X . . O . X X O . . |
$$ | X O . X O . . O . O O O . O O O X . . |
$$ | . X O X O X . . O X O X O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O O . . X X X X . . . X . . |
$$ | . X . X . X . . . X O O O O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . X X X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O O . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . X X O X O . O . X . . O O X X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . . X . |
$$ | . X . O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . |
$$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . O |
$$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X . O O X . O X O . X . X . X O |
$$ | . X X O O . . . . O X . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O O X X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X O . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #286 Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:26 am 
Judan

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Rank: UK 4 dan
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
@Joaz
I wondered about this way to defend, but I didn't count if it is better/worse than yours:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: white: 8 black: 5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | O O X O X X . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X O X O . O X . . O . X X O . . |
$$ | X O . X O . . O . O O O . O O O X . . |
$$ | . X O X O X . . O X O X O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O O . . X X X X . . . X . . |
$$ | . X . X . X . . . X O O O O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . X X X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O O . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . X X O X O . O . X . . O O X X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . . X . |
$$ | . X . O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . |
$$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . O |
$$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X . O O X . O X O . X . X . X O |
$$ | . X X O O . . . . O X . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O O X . B . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #287 Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:39 am 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: white: 8 black: 5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | O O X O X X . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X O X O . O X . . O . X X O . . |
$$ | X O . X O . . O . O O O . O O O X . . |
$$ | . X O X O X . . O X O X O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O O . . X X X X . . . X . . |
$$ | . X . X . X . . . X O O O O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . X X X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O O . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . X X O X O . O . X . . O O X X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . . X . |
$$ | . X . O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . |
$$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . O |
$$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X . O O X . O X O . X . X . X O |
$$ | . X X O O . . . . O X . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O O X X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X O W . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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 Post subject: Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #288 Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:13 am 
Judan
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Kaya handle: Test
Uberdude wrote:
@Joaz
I wondered about this way to defend, but I didn't count if it is better/worse than yours:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: white: 8 black: 5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | O O X O X X . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X O X O . O X . . O . X X O . . |
$$ | X O . X O . . O . O O O . O O O X . . |
$$ | . X O X O X . . O X O X O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O O . . X X X X . . . X . . |
$$ | . X . X . X . . . X O O O O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . X X X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O O . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . X X O X O . O . X . . O O X X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . . X . |
$$ | . X . O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . |
$$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . O |
$$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X . O O X . O X O . X . X . X O |
$$ | . X X O O . . . . O X . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O O X . B . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


It was one of the moves that I looked at. Unfortunately, he can play this sequence:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: white: 8 black: 5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | O O X O X X . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X O X O . O X . . O . X X O . . |
$$ | X O . X O . . O . O O O . O O O X . . |
$$ | . X O X O X . . O X O X O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O O . . X X X X . . . X . . |
$$ | . X . X . X . . . X O O O O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . X X X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O O . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . X X O X O . O . X . . O O X X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . . X . |
$$ | . X . O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . |
$$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . O |
$$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X 6 4 5 X O . |
$$ | . . . X . O O X . O X O . X 3 X 9 X O |
$$ | . X X O O . . . . O X . . . 1 2 X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O O X . B 7 X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...which ends in sente for him. :cry:

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 Post subject: Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #289 Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:19 am 
Judan
User avatar

Posts: 5539
Location: Banbeck Vale
Liked others: 1102
Was liked: 1456
Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: white: 8 black: 5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | O O X O X X . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X O X O . O X . . O . X X O . . |
$$ | X O . X O . . O . O O O . O O O X . . |
$$ | . X O X O X . . O X O X O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O O . . X X X X . . . X . . |
$$ | . X . X . X . . . X O O O O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . X X X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O O . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . X X O X O . O . X . . O O X X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . . X . |
$$ | . X . O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . |
$$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . O |
$$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X . O O X . O X O . X . X . X O |
$$ | . X X O O . . . . O X . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O O X X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . B X O O . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Yes, it looks thin, but it is worth one more point in some lines. ( Half a point in others, I think ) And the game is so close, that may make a difference.

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 Post subject: Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #290 Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:23 am 
Judan
User avatar

Posts: 5539
Location: Banbeck Vale
Liked others: 1102
Was liked: 1456
Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: white: 8 black: 5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | O O X O X X . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X O X O . O X . . O . X X O . . |
$$ | X O . X O . . O . O O O . O O O X . . |
$$ | . X O X O X . . O X O X O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O O . . X X X X . . . X . . |
$$ | . X . X . X . . . X O O O O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . X X X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O O . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . X X O X O . O . X . . O O X X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . . X . |
$$ | . X . O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . |
$$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . O |
$$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X . O O X . O X O . X . X . X O |
$$ | . X X O O . . . . O X . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O O X X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . B X O O . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Yes, it looks thin, but it is worth one more point in some lines. ( Half a point in others, I think ) And the game is so close, that may make a difference.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: white: 8 black: 5
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . . X . |
$$ | . X . O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . |
$$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . O |
$$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X . O O X . O X O . X . X d X O |
$$ | . X X O O . . . . O X . . . c a X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O O X X . b X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . B X O O . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Tewari analysis: I need to play 'a' or 'b' or 'c' or something similar to prevent the obvious double atari. But, because I have to eventually be able to play 'a' if he plays 'd', playing 'b' or 'c' is redundant.

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 Post subject: Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #291 Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:50 am 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
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OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: white: 8 black: 5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | O O X O X X . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X O X O . O X . . O . X X O . . |
$$ | X O . X O . . O . O O O . O O O X . . |
$$ | . X O X O X . . O X O X O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O O . . X X X X . . . X . . |
$$ | . X . X . X . . . X O O O O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . X X X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O O . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . X X O X O . O . X . . O O X X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . . X W |
$$ | . X . O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . |
$$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . O |
$$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X . O O X . O X O . X . X . X O |
$$ | . X X O O . . . . O X . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O O X X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . X X O O . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
i think i will win close to 5 points
some point of intrest
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: white: 8 black: 5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . . d X . . . |
$$ | O O X O X X . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X O X O . O X . . O . X X O . . |
$$ | X O . X O . . O . O O O . O O O X . . |
$$ | . X O X O X . . O X O X O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O O . . X X X X . . . X . . |
$$ | . X . X . X . . . X O O O O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . X X X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . c , O O . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . X X O X O . O . X . . O O X X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . . X W |
$$ | . X b O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . |
$$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . O |
$$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X . O O X . O X O . X . X . X O |
$$ | . X X O O . . . . O X . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . a O . . . . . . O O X X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . X X O O . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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 Post subject: Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #292 Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:20 am 
Judan
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Posts: 5539
Location: Banbeck Vale
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Kaya handle: Test
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: white: 8 black: 5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | O O X O X X . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X O X O . O X . . O . X X O . . |
$$ | X O . X O . . O . O O O . O O O X . . |
$$ | . X O X O X . . O X O X O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O O . . X X X X . . . X . . |
$$ | . X . X . X . . . X O O O O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . X X X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O O . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . X X O X O . O . X . . O O X X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . . X O |
$$ | . X . O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . |
$$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . O |
$$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X . O O X . O X O . X . X . X O |
$$ | . X X O O . . . . O X . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . B O . . . . . . O O X X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . X X O O . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This move is larger than it looks. E4 used to be double gote. Now it is my sente, and still gote for him. When I play it, H4 has lots of aji, and will take at least one more internal gote move for him to kill it.
By my count, this is larger than the damage that my group will suffer on the right - which I would have to defend in gote.

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Post #293 Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:33 am 
Tengen
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OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: white: 8 black: 5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | O O X O X X . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X O X O . O X . . O . X X O . . |
$$ | X O . X O . . O . O O O . O O O X . . |
$$ | . X O X O X . . O X O X O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O O . . X X X X . . . X . . |
$$ | . X . X . X . . . X O O O O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . X X X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O O . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . X X O X O . O . X . . O O X X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . . X O |
$$ | . X . O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . |
$$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . O |
$$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X . O O X . O X O . X . X . X O |
$$ | . X X O O . . . . O X . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . O O X X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . W . . . . . . . O . X X O O . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #294 Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:35 am 
Judan

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I didn't count it accurately, but b2 feels bigger to me than t8; maybe MW was too hopeful a weaker player would believe his t8 was sente?

b2 also has some follow-ups not normally present in that yose shape, if white gets b7 then black can't block at a or else b cuts.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: white: 8 black: 5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . . 4 X . . . |
$$ | O O X O X X . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X O X O . O X . . O . X X O . . |
$$ | X O . X O . . O . O O O . O O O X . . |
$$ | . X O X O X . . O X O X O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O O . . X X X X . . . X . . |
$$ | . X . X . X . . . X O O O O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . X X X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O O . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . X X O X O . O . X . . O O X X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . . X 2 |
$$ | . X 3 O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . |
$$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . O |
$$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X . . X X O . |
$$ | a . b X . O O X . O X O . X . X . X O |
$$ | 5 X X O O . . . . O X . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . 1 O . . . . . . O O X X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . X X O O . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #295 Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:14 am 
Judan
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For observers:
Joaz Banbeck wrote:
This move is larger than it looks.

It appears that MW agrees with me. :twisted: But then, why did he not take B2 himself and let me have T8? :scratch:

Joaz Banbeck wrote:
E4 used to be double gote. Now it is my sente, and still gote for him. When I play it, H4 has lots of aji, and will take at least one more internal gote move for him to kill it.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: white: 8 black: 5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | O O X O X X . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X O X O . O X . . O . X X O . . |
$$ | X O . X O . . O . O O O . O O O X . . |
$$ | . X O X O X . . O X O X O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O O . . X X X X . . . X . . |
$$ | . X . X . X . . . X O O O O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . X X X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O O . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . X X O X O . O . X . . O O X X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . . X O |
$$ | . X . O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . |
$$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . O |
$$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X 1 O O X . O X O . X . X . X O |
$$ | . X X O O 3 4 . . O X . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . X O 8 . 5 6 . . O O X X . . X O O . |
$$ | . 9 . O 7 . . . . . . O . X X O O . 2 |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

..or:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: white: 8 black: 5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | O O X O X X . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X O X O . O X . . O . X X O . . |
$$ | X O . X O . . O . O O O . O O O X . . |
$$ | . X O X O X . . O X O X O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O O . . X X X X . . . X . . |
$$ | . X . X . X . . . X O O O O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . X X X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O O . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . X X O X O . O . X . . O O X X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . . X O |
$$ | . X . O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . |
$$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . O |
$$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X 1 O O X . O X O . X . X . X O |
$$ | . X X O O 3 4 8 0 O X . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . X O . 6 5 7 9 . O O X X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . O . a . . . . . O . X X O O . 2 |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


MW, of course, will not let either of these two happy scenarios occur. But the point is that B2 was bigger than it looked because of possibilies like this. And in the meantime, it is a nice source of ko threats.

Now, what is bigger?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: white: 8 black: 5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . . C X . . . |
$$ | O O X O X X . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X O X O . O X . . O . X X O . . |
$$ | X O . X O . . O . O O O . O O O X . . |
$$ | . X O X O X . . O X O X O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O O . . X X X X . . . X . . |
$$ | . X . X . X . . . X O O O O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . X X X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . C O O . . . , . . . X . , X C . |
$$ | . X X O X O . O . X . . O O X X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . C X O |
$$ | . X C O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . |
$$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . O |
$$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X . O O X . O X O . X . X . X O |
$$ | . X X O O . . . . O X . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . O O X X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . X X O O . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #296 Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:24 am 
Judan

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@Joaz:
Joaz Banbeck wrote:
But then, why did he not take B2 himself and let me have T8? :scratch:


I share your surprise. Maybe he hoped you would be weak minded and think t8 was sente :)


@Magicwand:
Did you expect black to answer your t8? Seems to me b2 was bigger, particularly if you let him have it in sente.

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 Post subject: Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #297 Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:43 am 
Judan
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@Uberdude
Uberdude wrote:
... Maybe he hoped you would be weak minded and think t8 was sente :)


After I choked and let him have K6 so easily, this is not an entirely unfounded assumption. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #298 Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:25 pm 
Tengen
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Uberdude wrote:
@Magicwand:
Did you expect black to answer your t8? Seems to me b2 was bigger, particularly if you let him have it in sente.

i am not convinced that b2 is bigger than t8.
i counted that i lose that point and i win my at least 5 points.
there is no question that i will win this game...t8 is bigger than it looks.

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 Post subject: Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #299 Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:12 pm 
Judan
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After substantial analysis in the past few days, I have come to the conclusion that, if I play my endgame perfectly, and MW merely plays safely and competently, I still lose by two points.

Therefore, I resign.

Congrats, MW, and thank you.

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Post #300 Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:59 pm 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
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thank you for the game.

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