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 Post subject: Re: #200 Phelan vs. tomukaze
Post #21 Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:25 pm 
Oza

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Universal go server handle: skydyr
Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
Phelan wrote:
If you try to solidify your group, he gets a wall towards an open space, and yours looks towards his enclosure, so he gets off much better:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 4 . . |
$$ | . . X , 1 . . . . , . . . 8 2 5 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . 9 . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . X . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



Why not push and cut, as so?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 6 4 . . |
$$ | . . X , 1 . . . . , . . . . 2 5 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . X . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #200 Phelan vs. tomukaze
Post #22 Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:42 am 
Lives with ko
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KGS: seanachain
DGS: seanachain
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . |
$$ | . . X , 1 . . . . , . . . . 2 6 X 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . X . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
我が道を行く。
I'll do it my way....

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 Post subject: Re: #200 Phelan vs. tomukaze
Post #23 Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:18 pm 
Gosei
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GD Posts: 892
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . |
$$ | . . X , 1 . . . . , . . . . 2 6 X 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . X . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I expect :w18: below, or something similar. I thought of peeping first, by playing at :w18: now, but I don't like a White play at 'a'.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 What I expect
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . 9 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . |
$$ | . . X , 1 . . . . , . . . . 2 6 X 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 a . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . X . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


While previewing, I just noticed another(probably better) possibility for White:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 What I expect
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 8 . |
$$ | . . X , 1 . . . . , . . . . 2 6 X 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . 9 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . X . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

:b19: feels necessary, I don't think I can peep immediately at :w20: ,but I'll read that later.

_________________
a1h1 [1d]: You just need to curse the gods and defend.
Good Go = Shape.
Associação Portuguesa de Go

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 Post subject: Re: #200 Phelan vs. tomukaze
Post #24 Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:08 pm 
Lives with ko
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Posts: 204
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Rank: KGS 3 Kyu
KGS: seanachain
DGS: seanachain
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . |
$$ | . . X , 1 . . . . , . . . . 2 6 X 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . X . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Nice shape no!?

_________________
我が道を行く。
I'll do it my way....

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 Post subject: Re: #200 Phelan vs. tomukaze
Post #25 Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:33 pm 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . 9 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . |
$$ | . . X , 1 . . . . , . . . . 2 6 X 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . X . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Like I said in the previous post, the alternative line felt better for white.
This lets me go on the attack.

_________________
a1h1 [1d]: You just need to curse the gods and defend.
Good Go = Shape.
Associação Portuguesa de Go

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 Post subject: Re: #200 Phelan vs. tomukaze
Post #26 Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:07 pm 
Gosei

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Not for players:
Hmm ... I don't like :b19: ... there must be bigger plays on the board right now, right? The top is a nice open space. I think I'd play there.

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 Post subject: Re: #200 Phelan vs. tomukaze
Post #27 Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:01 am 
Oza

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Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
Marcus wrote:
Hmm ... I don't like :b19: ... there must be bigger plays on the board right now, right? The top is a nice open space. I think I'd play there.


I agree. Once white has decent looking shape there, white's not very attackable, and a 2nd line move so early feels tiny. I was looking a little bit at putting pressure on white's looser lower right, which is in the process of being surrounded. Perhaps by pushing against the centre white group as a leaning attack?

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 Post subject: Re: #200 Phelan vs. tomukaze
Post #28 Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:12 am 
Lives with ko
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Posts: 204
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Rank: KGS 3 Kyu
KGS: seanachain
DGS: seanachain
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . 9 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . |
$$ | . . X , 1 . . . . , . . . . 2 6 X 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . X . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This move looks annoying, as in I wouldn't like this move played against me so why not play it myself! :P

_________________
我が道を行く。
I'll do it my way....

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 Post subject: Re: #200 Phelan vs. tomukaze
Post #29 Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:34 pm 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . X . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I wasn't expecting this one. I was expecting him to try to attack me with the above white group, while getting eyespace for his stones.
I'm just solidifying my group to avoid this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 2 3 |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 4 b . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X a . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . X . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

'a' or 'b' would give part of the group up, letting him be safe. So I need to protect.
This seems the better way

_________________
a1h1 [1d]: You just need to curse the gods and defend.
Good Go = Shape.
Associação Portuguesa de Go

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 Post subject: Re: #200 Phelan vs. tomukaze
Post #30 Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:29 pm 
Lives with ko

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For Beginners:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . O W X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X a . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . X . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Since if Black's group gets cut off his shape aims at making an eye at a later, White should aim at placing a stone at :w1: . This is an attacking tesuji called the "eye-stealing tesuji". The relation with the marked White stone is what makes it work. Now no matter how hard Black tries, he cannot make an eye at a without first capturing :w1: . Incidentally, this makes :w1: a critically important stone that must be saved once played.

At this point, however, Black can probably capture :w1: if it is played, but White's play at b practically makes Black strengthen himself, losing the chance to play :w1: later.

It's worth noting that Black should play at :w1: before White, if he gets the chance.

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 Post subject: Re: #200 Phelan vs. tomukaze
Post #31 Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:09 pm 
Lives with ko
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Posts: 204
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Rank: KGS 3 Kyu
KGS: seanachain
DGS: seanachain
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . X . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #200 Phelan vs. tomukaze
Post #32 Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:29 pm 
Gosei
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GD Posts: 892
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . 3 . X . 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . X . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I could just connect and avoid the cut, but it seems too slow for me.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 solid, but slow
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 3 . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . X . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

He can now play wherever he wants, making better shape for his center white group, for instance.

With the move I played, I believe the cut doesn't get him in a much more favorable position:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 What I expect
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 4 6 . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . 3 . X 5 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . X . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Good Go = Shape.
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 Post subject: Re: #200 Phelan vs. tomukaze
Post #33 Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:46 pm 
Lives with ko
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Posts: 204
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Rank: KGS 3 Kyu
KGS: seanachain
DGS: seanachain
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . 3 . X . 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . X . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #200 Phelan vs. tomukaze
Post #34 Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:49 pm 
Lives with ko
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Rank: KGS 3 Kyu
KGS: seanachain
DGS: seanachain
Ok so he has a "weak group" and no real potential territory. Just lots of high stones with lots of influence, I'm sure I can combat that :P

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 Post subject: Re: #200 Phelan vs. tomukaze
Post #35 Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:23 pm 
Gosei
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Posts: 1449
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Rank: KGS 6k
GD Posts: 892
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . 3 . X . 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . X . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think this works:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 6 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 8 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . 3 . X . 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . X . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
a1h1 [1d]: You just need to curse the gods and defend.
Good Go = Shape.
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 Post subject: Re: #200 Phelan vs. tomukaze
Post #36 Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:27 pm 
Oza

Posts: 2493
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Universal go server handle: skydyr
Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
@Phelan
How do you plan to respond to this?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . 3 . X . 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . X . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #200 Phelan vs. tomukaze
Post #37 Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:27 pm 
Gosei
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skydyr wrote:
@Phelan
How do you plan to respond to this?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . 3 . X . 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . X . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I didn't have a definite plan. I know that if it comes to worse and I need to, I can connect at R9.

I think I'd likely play one of the letters below. 'a' is probably the best, as it forces him to deal with the cut, but I still have to go back and protect at R9. 'c' doesn't have that R9 problem, but hurts my corner. 'b' would likely mean playing 'a' (or 'c', depending on his response) later.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X b . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 c . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . 3 . X . 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . X . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
a1h1 [1d]: You just need to curse the gods and defend.
Good Go = Shape.
Associação Portuguesa de Go

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 Post subject: Re: #200 Phelan vs. tomukaze
Post #38 Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:39 am 
Lives with ko
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Posts: 204
Liked others: 26
Was liked: 27
Rank: KGS 3 Kyu
KGS: seanachain
DGS: seanachain
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . 3 . X . 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . X . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Building thickness whilst attacking his group on the right.

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 Post subject: Re: #200 Phelan vs. tomukaze
Post #39 Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:13 am 
Gosei
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Rank: KGS 6k
GD Posts: 892
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . 3 . X . 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . X . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I like this one better, I guess.
I expect:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X 7 9 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 8 c |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b a . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . 3 . X . 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . X . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I'm not sure which of 'a','b', or 'c' would be better for his :w30: .

_________________
a1h1 [1d]: You just need to curse the gods and defend.
Good Go = Shape.
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 Post subject: Re: #200 Phelan vs. tomukaze
Post #40 Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:55 am 
Oza

Posts: 2493
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Universal go server handle: skydyr
Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
observers only
Edlee? Are you out there?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm30 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O 2 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 1 . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . X . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Black's shape looks pretty broken to start with, and I would be tempted to do something like this and fight on a larger scale. White has a cutting point at b, but black's not getting much out of this other than survival, I think.

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