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 Post subject: Re: #201 drmwc vs lovelove
Post #161 Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:25 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm151
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X X X X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . O . O O X O O . O . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . . O . . O . O , O . . |
$$ | . O O X X X X X X . . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | O X X . X . O O X X X X X O X . X X . |
$$ | . O . X . X O . O . O O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . O O O . . . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . O O X O O . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X X X X X O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . X . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X X O . O . O O 1 X . . . . . |
$$ | X O O X X O . . . . . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O . O . , . X X O X , . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O X . . O . O O O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



44 appears to be double sente for W. however, I was slightly surprised to see white play it immediately. There are two reasons for my surprise:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X X X X X X 5 . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . O . O O X O O . O . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . . O . . O . O . O . . |
$$ | . O O X X X X X X . . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | O X X . X . O O X X X X X O X . X X . |
$$ | . O . X . X O . O . O O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . O O O . . . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . O O X O O . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X X X X X O . . O . 3 X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . X . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X X O . O . O O 1 X . . . . . |
$$ | X O O X X O . . . . . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O . O . , . X X O X , . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O X . . O . O O O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Black 3 becomes powerful after W 44. Also, if B gets to descend at 5, my yose improves a bit as a result of having captured the single stone, for example:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X X X X X X 1 9 |
$$ | . . . O O . O . O . O O X O O 4 O 6 8 |
$$ | . O X O X O . . . O . . O . O 3 O 5 . |
$$ | . O O X X X X X X . . . . O O X X O 7 |
$$ | O X X . X . O O X X X X X O X . X X . |
$$ | . O . X . X O . O . O O O X X X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


9 is my sente here.

So W may choose to make this exchange in sente quite soon:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | 3 . . . . . . . 8 6 2 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . a 9 4 7 O X X X X X X X 1 . |
$$ | . . . O O . O 5 O . O O X O O . O . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . . O . . O . O . O . . |
$$ | . O O X X X X X X . . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | O X X . X . O O X X X X X O X . X X . |
$$ | . O . X . X O . O . O O O X X X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


However, this exchange improve my yose on the top side as shown.If W neglects to play some of these move, the peep at a becomes big for me.


I expect W will continue as here:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X X X X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . O . O O X O O . O . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . . O . . O . O , O . . |
$$ | . O O X X X X X X . . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | O X X . X . O O X X X X X O X . X X . |
$$ | . O . X . X O . O . O O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . O O O . . . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . O O X O O . . 5 3 6 . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X X X X X O 4 . O . 2 X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . X . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O . . . . X a . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X X O . O . O O 1 X . . . . . |
$$ | X O O X X O . . . . . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O . O . , . X X O X , . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O X . . O . O O O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


2 is nearly double sente - it looks like it activates a cut at a. I intend to play at 3. There are lots of choices for W, but if it goes as shown I believe that I have a slight lead.


W can't play actually play the cut I pointed out:



Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X X X X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . O . O O X O O . O . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . . O . . O . O , O . . |
$$ | . O O X X X X X X . . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | O X X . X . O O X X X X X O X . X X . |
$$ | . O . X . X O . O . O O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . O O O . . . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . O O X O O . . . 3 . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X X X X X O . . O . 2 X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . X . . . . . 6 . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O . . . 5 X 4 . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X X O . O 7 O O 1 X . . . . . |
$$ | X O O X X O . . . 0 8 X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O . O . , 9 X X O X , . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O X . . O . O O O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


5 threatens a geta, so forces 6. Then after 9 nasty things will happen on the lower side to W.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X X X X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . O . O O X O O . O . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . . O . . O . O , O . . |
$$ | . O O X X X X X X . . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | O X X . X . O O X X X X X O X . X X . |
$$ | . O . X . X O . O . O O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . O O O . . . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . O O X O O . . . X . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X X X X X O . . O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . X . . . . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O . . . X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X X O . O X O O X X . . . . . |
$$ | X O O X X O . . 2 O X X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O . O . 1 X X X O X , . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O X . . O 3 O O O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Finally, here is an laternative for W for in the main variant:


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X X X X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . O . O O X O O . O . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . . O . . O . O , O . . |
$$ | . O O X X X X X X . . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | O X X . X . O O X X X X X O X . X X . |
$$ | . O . X . X O . O . O O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . O O O . . . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . O O X O O . . 4 3 . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X X X X X O 5 . O . 2 X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O 6 7 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . X . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O . . . . X a . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X X O . O . O O 1 X . . . . . |
$$ | X O O X X O . . . . . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O . O . , . X X O X , . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O X . . O . O O O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


B 5 and 7 as here work OK if W cuts.

I mentioned the cut at 3 as a move to play instead of 41. I reject this because, at that time, W reply with a nobi as in the main diagram (5 above) worked well for him. Now I hve extra stones in the area, W's territory from the nobi is smaller so it looks like better timing for me.

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 Post subject: Re: #201 drmwc vs lovelove
Post #162 Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:30 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm151 Prisoners: Black 3 White 3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X X X X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . O . O O X O O . O . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . . O . . O . O , O . . |
$$ | . O O X X X X X X . . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | O X X . X . O O X X X X X O X . X X . |
$$ | . O . X . X O . O . O O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . O O O . . . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . O O X O O . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X X X X X O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . X . . . . . 2 . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X X O . O . O O X X . . . . . |
$$ | X O O X X O . . . . . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O . O . , . X X O X , . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O X . . O . O O O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm151 To defend my weakness at 'a' efficiently.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X X X X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . O . O O X O O . O . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . . O . . O . O , O . . |
$$ | . O O X X X X X X . . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | O X X . X . O O X X X X X O X . X X . |
$$ | . O . X . X O . O . O O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . O O O . . . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . O O X O O . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X X X X X O . . O . a X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . X . . . . . 2 . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X X O . O . O O X X . . . . . |
$$ | X O O X X O . . . . . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O . O . , . X X O X , . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O X . . O . O O O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #201 drmwc vs lovelove
Post #163 Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:06 am 
Judan

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@lovelove:
How did you decide between this being a good forcing move, and a bad thank-you move that helps black fix his cut?

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 Post subject: Re: #201 drmwc vs lovelove
Post #164 Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:18 am 
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Uberdude wrote:
@lovelove:
How did you decide between this being a good forcing move, and a bad thank-you move that helps black fix his cut?

I never thought I can cut there.

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 Post subject: Re: #201 drmwc vs lovelove
Post #165 Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:22 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm151 Prisoners: Black 3 White 3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X X X X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . O . O O X O O . O . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . . O . . O . O , O . . |
$$ | . O O X X X X X X . . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | O X X . X . O O X X X X X O X . X X . |
$$ | . O . X . X O . O . O O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . O O O . . . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . O O X O O . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X X X X X O . . O . 3 X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . X . . . . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X X O . O . O O X X . . . . . |
$$ | X O O X X O . . . . . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O . O . , . X X O X , . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O X . . O . O O O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If W cuts, I will just capture the three stones as shown:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm153 Prisoners: Black 3 White 3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X X X X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . O . O O X O O . O . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . . O . . O . O , O . . |
$$ | . O O X X X X X X . . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | O X X . X . O O X X X X X O X . X X . |
$$ | . O . X . X O . O 5 O O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . O O O 6 7 . 3 O O O X . . |
$$ | . O O X O O . . . . 8 9 . 4 O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X X X X X O . 0 O . 1 X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . X . . . . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O . . . . X 2 . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X X O . O . O O X X . . . . . |
$$ | X O O X X O . . . . . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O . O . , . X X O X , . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O X . . O . O O O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The extra 6 points is useful, and W's terrtory is not too big, so I like this for B. So W may well need to answer passively:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm151 Prisoners: Black 3 White 3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X X X X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . O . O O X O O . O . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . . O . . O . O , O . . |
$$ | . O O X X X X X X . . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | O X X . X . O O X X X X X O X . X X . |
$$ | . O . X . X O . O . O O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . O O O . . . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . O O X O O . . . . . . 4 . O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X X X X X O . . O . 3 X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . X . . . . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X X O . O . O O X X . . . . . |
$$ | X O O X X O . . . . . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O . O . , . X X O X , . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O X . . O . O O O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I've not decided what to do if this happens, but it must be a good exchange for B.

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 Post subject: Re: #201 drmwc vs lovelove
Post #166 Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:45 am 
Lives in gote

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm151 Prisoners: Black 3 White 3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X X X X X X 4 . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . O . O O X O O . O . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . . O . . O . O , O . . |
$$ | . O O X X X X X X . . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | O X X . X . O O X X X X X O X . X X . |
$$ | . O . X . X O . O . O O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . O O O . . . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . O O X O O . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X X X X X O . . O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . X . . . . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X X O . O . O O X X . . . . . |
$$ | X O O X X O . . . . . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O . O . , . X X O X , . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O X . . O . O O O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

A trade might happen.

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 Post subject: Re: #201 drmwc vs lovelove
Post #167 Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:56 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm151 Prisoners: Black 3 White 3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X X X X X X O . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . O . O O X O O . O . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . . O . . O . O , O . . |
$$ | . O O X X X X X X . . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | O X X . X . O O X X X X X O X . X X . |
$$ | . O . X . X O . O . O O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . O O O . . . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . O O X O O . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X X X X X O . . O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . X . . . . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X X O . O . O O X X . . . . . |
$$ | X O O X X O . . . . . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O . O . , . X X O X , . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O X . . O . O O O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #201 drmwc vs lovelove
Post #168 Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:59 am 
Lives in gote

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm151 Prisoners: Black 3 White 3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X X X X X X O . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . O . O O X O O . O . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . . O . . O . O , O . . |
$$ | . O O X X X X X X . . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | O X X . X . O O X X X X X O X . X X . |
$$ | . O . X . X O . O . O O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . O O O . . . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . O O X O O . . . . . . 6 . O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X X X X X O . . O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . X . . . . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X X O . O . O O X X . . . . . |
$$ | X O O X X O . . . . . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O . O . , . X X O X , . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O X . . O . O O O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think this is the right answer. I'm still winning.

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 Post subject: Re: #201 drmwc vs lovelove
Post #169 Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:04 am 
Tengen
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by my count whit will lose... and the board is very simplified so very little variation to make up the deficit.

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 Post subject: Re: #201 drmwc vs lovelove
Post #170 Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:53 am 
Lives in gote
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm151 Prisoners: Black 3 White 3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X X X X X X O . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . O . O O X O O . O . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . . O . . O . O , O . . |
$$ | . O O X X X X X X . . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | O X X . X . O O X X X X X O X . X X . |
$$ | . O . X . X O . O . O O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . O O O . . . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . O O X O O . . . . . . O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X X X X X O . . O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . X . . . . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X X O . O . O O X X . . . . . |
$$ | X O O X X O . . . . . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O . O . , . X X O X , . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O X . . O . O O O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . O . . . . . 7 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This seems to be biggest move.

There may be bad aji if I don't play here and I tenuki the area often enough, for example:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X X X X X X O . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . O . O O X O O . O . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . . O . . O . O , O . . |
$$ | . O O X X X X X X . . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | O X X . X . O O X X X X X O X . X X . |
$$ | . O . X . X O . O . O O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . O O O . . . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . O O X O O . . . . . . O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X X X X X O . . O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . 9 7 1 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . X . . . 0 8 O . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O . . . . X 6 . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X X O . O . O O X X . . . . . |
$$ | X O O X X O . . . . . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O . O . , . X X O X , . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O X . . O . O O O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X 5 O . . . . . 4 2 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This looks bad for W, but B cannot continue in the centre:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X X X X X X O . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . O . O O X O O . O . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . . O . . O . O , O . . |
$$ | . O O X X X X X X . . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | O X X . X . O O X X X X X O X . X X . |
$$ | . O . X . X O . O . O O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . O O O . . . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . O O X O O . . . . . . O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X X X X X O . . O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . 1 X X X 7 . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . X . . . O O O 4 5 6 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O . . . . X O 3 2 . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X X O . O . O O X X . . . . . |
$$ | X O O X X O . . . . . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O . O . , . X X O X , . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O X . . O . O O O X . 0 . . |
$$ | . . O O X X X O . . . . . O O X 8 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X X X X X X O . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . O . O O X O O . O . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . . O . . O . O , O . . |
$$ | . O O X X X X X X . . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | O X X . X . O O X X X X X O X . X X . |
$$ | . O . X . X O . O . O O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . O O O . . . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . O O X O O . . . . . . O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X X X X X O . . O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . X X X X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . X . . . O O O O X O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O . . . . X O X O . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X X O . O . O O X X . . 8 . . |
$$ | X O O X X O . . . . . X . X . X . 2 . |
$$ | . O . O X O . O . , . X X O X , 3 4 . |
$$ | . O . O X O X . . O . O O O X 1 O 6 . |
$$ | . . O O X X X O . . . . . O O X O 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 7 . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


B may run out of liberties.

W has numerous moves to reply to the move actually played: for example

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 9 . O X X X X X X X O . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . O . O O X O O . O . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . . O . . O . O , O . . |
$$ | . O O X X X X X X . . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | O X X . X . O O X X X X X O X . X X . |
$$ | . O . X . X O . O . O O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . O O O . . . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . O O X O O . . . . . . O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X X X X X O . . O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . a . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . X . . . . . O . b . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O . . . . X . . . c . . . |
$$ | . X X X X X O . O . O O X X . . . . . |
$$ | X O O X X O . . . . . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O . O . 5 . X X O X , . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O X . 6 O . O O O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X 4 O . . 8 . 2 1 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


It's becoming possible to count more accurately. W will probably get 20 points on the upper side, 10 in the corner and aaround 20 on the lower side and in the centre. Total: 50 plus komi.

B has 45 on the RHS (which could be more if, for example, B peeps at a - this count assumes W gets to excahnge B for c in sente.) 4 points upper side. 10 points LHS. Total: 60 points. So it looks like a narrow lead for B.

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 Post subject: Re: #201 drmwc vs lovelove
Post #171 Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:56 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm151 Prisoners: Black 3 White 3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X X X X X X O . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . O . O O X O O . O . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . . O . . O . O , O . . |
$$ | . O O X X X X X X . . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | O X X . X . O O X X X X X O X . X X . |
$$ | . O . X . X O . O . O O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . O O O . . . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . O O X O O . . . . . . O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X X X X X O . . O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . X . . . . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X X O . O . O O X X . . . . . |
$$ | X O O X X O . . . . . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O . O . , 8 X X O X , . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O X . . O . O O O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I'd just make the game simple.

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 Post subject: Re: #201 drmwc vs lovelove
Post #172 Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:08 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm151 Prisoners: Black 3 White 3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X X X X X X O . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . O . O O X O O . O . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . . O . . O . O , O . . |
$$ | . O O X X X X X X . . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | O X X . X . O O X X X X X O X . X X . |
$$ | . O . X . X O . O . O O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . O O O . . . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . O O X O O . . . . . . O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X X X X X O . . O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . 9 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . X . . . . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X X O . O . O O X X . . . . . |
$$ | X O O X X O . . . . . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O . O . , O X X O X , . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O X . . O . O O O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Worth around 10 points and more or less stops W from cutting. It's almost sent as well. My RHS is now 50 points or more.

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 Post subject: Re: #201 drmwc vs lovelove
Post #173 Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:13 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm160 Prisoners: Black 3 White 4
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X X X X X X O . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . O . O O X O O . O . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . . O . . O . O , O . . |
$$ | . O O X X X X X X . . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | O X X . X . O O X X X X X O X . X X . |
$$ | . O . X . X O . O . O O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . O O O . . . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . O O X O O . . . . . . O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X X X X O . . O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . X 2 1 . . . O . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . X . . . . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O . . . . X 3 . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X X O . O . O O X X . . . . . |
$$ | X O O X X O . . . . . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O . O . , O X X O X , . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O X . . O . O O O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #201 drmwc vs lovelove
Post #174 Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:53 am 
Judan

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drmwc wrote:
... and more or less stops W from cutting.


<W cuts>

:lol:

I must admit I was surprised how long black didn't connect or white didn't cut. I guess I'm a moron...

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 Post subject: Re: #201 drmwc vs lovelove
Post #175 Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:27 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm163 Prisoners: Black 3 White 4
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X X X X X X O . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . O . O O X O O . O . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . . O . . O . O , O . . |
$$ | . O O X X X X X X . . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | O X X . X . O O X X X X X O X . X X . |
$$ | . O . X . X O . O . O O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . O O O . . . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . O O X O O . . . 1 . . O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X X X X O . . O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . O . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . X . . . . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O . . . . X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X X O . O . O O X X . . . . . |
$$ | X O O X X O . . . . . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O . O . , O X X O X , . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O X . . O . O O O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


A big move. W has as to whether to cut the stone off or not. If he connects (e.g. j9,l1), I connect at solidly and have a big move at L11 later.

If he cuts at j11, I cut off and solidly capture the single stone.

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 Post subject: Re: #201 drmwc vs lovelove
Post #176 Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:03 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm163 Prisoners: Black 3 White 4
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X X X X X X O . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . O . O O X O O . O . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . . O . . O . O , O . . |
$$ | . O O X X X X X X . . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | O X X . X . O O X X X X X O X . X X . |
$$ | . O . X . X O . O . O O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . O O O . . . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . O O X O O . . . X . . O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X X X X O . . O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . O 2 . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . X . . . . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O . . . . X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X X O . O . O O X X . . . . . |
$$ | X O O X X O . . . . . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O . O . , O X X O X , . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O X . . O . O O O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #201 drmwc vs lovelove
Post #177 Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 6:03 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm163 Prisoners: Black 3 White 4
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X X X X X X O . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . O . O O X O O . O . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . . O . . O . O , O . . |
$$ | . O O X X X X X X . . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | O X X . X . O O X X X X X O X . X X . |
$$ | . O . X . X O . O . O O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . O O O . . . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . O O X O O . . 3 X . . O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X X X X O . . O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . O O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . X . . . . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O . . . . X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X X O . O . O O X X . . . . . |
$$ | X O O X X O . . . . . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O . O . , O X X O X , . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O X . . O . O O O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #201 drmwc vs lovelove
Post #178 Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:25 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm163 Prisoners: Black 3 White 4
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X X X X X X O . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . O . O O X O O . O . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . . O . . O . O , O . . |
$$ | . O O X X X X X X . . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | O X X . X . O O X X X X X O X . X X . |
$$ | . O . X . X O . O . O O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . O O O . . . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . O O X O O . . X X 4 . O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X X X X O . . O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . O O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . X . . . . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O . . . . X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X X O . O . O O X X . . . . . |
$$ | X O O X X O . . . . . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O . O . , O X X O X , . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O X . . O . O O O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #201 drmwc vs lovelove
Post #179 Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:51 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm163 Prisoners: Black 3 White 4
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X X X X X X O . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . O . O O X O O . O . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . . O . . O . O , O . . |
$$ | . O O X X X X X X . . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | O X X . X . O O X X X X X O X . X X . |
$$ | . O . X . X O . O . O O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . O O O . . . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . O O X O O . . X X O . O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X X X X O . . O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . O O . . 5 X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . X . . . . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O . . . . X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X X O . O . O O X X . . . . . |
$$ | X O O X X O . . . . . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O . O . , O X X O X , . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O X . . O . O O O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


W has an atari as below which I cannot answer without giving up some territory on the RHS.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c 1 tenuki
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X X X X X X O . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . O . O O X O O . O . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . . O . . O . O , O . . |
$$ | . O O X X X X X X . . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | O X X . X . O O X X X X X O X . X X . |
$$ | . O . X . X O . O . O O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . O O O . . . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . O O X O O . . X X O . O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X X X X O . . O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . O O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . X . . . . . O 0 8 . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O . . . . X O 4 5 9 . . . |
$$ | . X X X X X O . O . O O X X 6 . . . . |
$$ | X O O X X O . . . . 2 X 3 X 7 X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O . O . , O X X O X , . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O X . . O . O O O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If W answers my move, I stop that nonsense whilst keeping sente, so I expect this:


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 7 . O X X X X X X X O . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . O . O O X O O . O . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . . O . . O . O , O c . |
$$ | . O O X X X X X X . . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | O X X . X . O O X X X X X O X . X X . |
$$ | . O . X . X O . O . O O O X X X . . . |
$$ | 6 5 X X . . O O O . . . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . O O X O O . . X X O . O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X X X X O . . O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . O O . 2 1 X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . X . . . 4 3 O . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O . . . . X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X X O . O . O O X X . . . . . |
$$ | X O O X X O . . . . . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O . O . , O X X O X , . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O X b . O . O O O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X a O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I believe that if is this happens, I get sente to play at which then leaves b and c as miai.

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 Post subject: Re: #201 drmwc vs lovelove
Post #180 Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:58 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm161 Prisoners: Black 3 White 4
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X X X X X X O . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . O . O O X O O . O . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . . O . . O . O , O . . |
$$ | . O O X X X X X X . . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | O X X . X . O O X X X X X O X . X X . |
$$ | . O . X . X O . O . O O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . O O O . . . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . O O X O O . . X X O . O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X X X X O . . O . X X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . O O . 8 X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . X . . . . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O . . . . X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X X O . O . O O X X . . . . . |
$$ | X O O X X O . . . . . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O . O . , O X X O X , . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O X . . O . O O O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . O . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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