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#219 ikkyu vs. billywoods
http://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=8690		 Page 4 of 5
Author:  billywoods [ Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: #219 ikkyu vs. billywoods
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm20 Prisoners: 0 black, 0 white
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Playing C2 now feels kind of crappy and gote. I probably will soon (my group isn't alive there yet), but right now I'm going to play this probe. I'd prefer to live in the upper right than the lower left, so black should probably block, and I'm interested to see how he blocks.

For what it's worth, I have just over 20 points in the lower right corner. I have a little less than 10 in the lower left, and black will probably get some too. If black kills :w25: and the two stones below it, he has around 40-50 points up there, but I might be able to reduce.
Author:  ikkyu [ Sat Jul 27, 2013 8:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: #219 ikkyu vs. billywoods
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm20 Prisoners: 0 black, 0 white
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Again, not really sure of how to deal with this other than wanting to keep R17 separated from the Q14 & 15 stones.
Author:  billywoods [ Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: #219 ikkyu vs. billywoods
Good response. Keeps me separated. I could be wrong, but I think ikkyu's strongest response was probably this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . X B . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


because it keeps my stones on the right separated and takes a liberty off :w25:. Either way, the two stones on the right are pretty conclusively dead. Notice that white can't even threaten to connect back up:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a O 1 . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . X B 4 5 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O 6 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


But :b2: at a would be a mistake:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 O 1 . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . X B 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


Famously alive shape (that probably has a name).

Here are some interesting local moves. I don't really know what they do. Does a live? (If it does now, it probably wouldn't have done if black had taken a liberty off as above.)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . b . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


Importantly, I can't just go around taking corners for the whole game. I will get into a lot of trouble if I don't break into the centre at some point.
Author:  illluck [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: #219 ikkyu vs. billywoods
I like black's move better than the empty triangle, which is a bit wishy-washy on both sides. Personally I'd probably block the other way, but maybe that's due to my bias against giving opponent corners :p
Author:  Shaddy [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 11:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: #219 ikkyu vs. billywoods
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 O 1 . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . X B 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Unless I'm missing something, this is a famous ko shape.
Author:  billywoods [ Mon Jul 29, 2013 3:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: #219 ikkyu vs. billywoods
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm20 Prisoners: 0 black, 0 white
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . 8 . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I definitely have to make something in the centre live, and this looks centrey. I'm very unsure about this move though.
Author:  ikkyu [ Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: #219 ikkyu vs. billywoods
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm20 Prisoners: 0 black, 0 white
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . O . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


As before, I really didn't have a good feel on what I should do. I thought about the following:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm20 Prisoners: 0 black, 0 white
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . a . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . b . O c X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . d . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


A & B act as both corner enclosures as well as putting pressure on white's lone stone. However, it looks like there are attachments and complicated things like that that I'm not certain I want to tangle with.
C looks interesting because it strengthens my stone while maybe working to keep his stone separate from the group in the upper right (maybe). I'm honestly mostly interested in this move because I've never played anything like it before and I'm curious how it would go.
D I like this, up to the point when I realized the cut could get really messy for me.

As such, having no real idea what to do, I played what I consider to be a very defensive move that I'm not at all sure about.
Author:  kex [ Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: #219 ikkyu vs. billywoods
ikkyu wrote:

As such, having no real idea what to do, I played what I consider to be a very defensive move that I'm not at all sure about.


I think your move is a very good one. While keeping white H16 under pressure, you get territory (R14 has no way to run out any more. It did not have much before, either, of course.). Seeing black play this kind of solid moves, when playing white, is extremely frustrating.
Author:  billywoods [ Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: #219 ikkyu vs. billywoods
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm20 Prisoners: 0 black, 0 white
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . 0 . O . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Oh, come on. Where are all these mistakes that 17 kyus are meant to make? I'd better start playing crazier moves.
Author:  ikkyu [ Thu Aug 01, 2013 5:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: #219 ikkyu vs. billywoods
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm30 Prisoners: 0 black, 0 white
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . O . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . 1 O X . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I feel like harassing this group a bit. I don't think it's as big as dealing with the top left group, but I find myself less interested in that at the moment.
Author:  ikkyu [ Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: #219 ikkyu vs. billywoods
So last night I went back to the local Go club for the first time since June 2012. I had forgotten how much fun I could have, as I like the social aspect of the game (which is one of the reasons I dislike playing online). I played two games and won both:

I played black in a 9-stone game where I played fairly well. I was able to do some good things, except that they were based more on instinct rather than reading/planning. I haven’t actively done problems in almost a year, so starting again should help this.
I played white in a 4-stone game where I played poorly. It should have been 5 stones, but my partner opted for 4. I made two large blunders, both based on miscounting liberties, and allowed two large black groups to live that shouldn’t have.

The nice thing about both games was that even though I wasn’t thrilled with my playing, I could see very specific areas that I needed to work on. This will obviously make improvement easier on my part.

And it’s interesting playing in a public place, as I was sitting next to two people having a conversation about combining the teachings of Anton LaVey with The Secret. If you know both, this is an intriguing proposition.
Author:  billywoods [ Sat Aug 03, 2013 8:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: #219 ikkyu vs. billywoods
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm30 Prisoners: 0 black, 0 white
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . O . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . X . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The lower left corner is very sad, but still has aji. I think black would have been better off playing at C2 instead - it's not clear what black's plan is for that B3 stone, e.g. if I play C4. Is black going to tenuki again to kill it, though? I doubt it. I hope the new group I've just introduced isn't going to be too weak. I don't think I need to worry about my top group - I can always attach at K17 (or D17, depending on how black plays) to make eyespace. I don't really have the time to make detailed comments now, and I didn't read too deeply anyway - black tenukied an approach stone, and I'm reasonably happy that, even if I abandon the two unsettled corners I have, this is bigger.

Also, as the stronger player, I feel it is my duty to play with a move order that looks entirely random to black to give the impression I know what I'm doing by now and it's all going wrong for him. (It's not - I'm still very far behind.)
Author:  ikkyu [ Sat Aug 03, 2013 11:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: #219 ikkyu vs. billywoods
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm30 Prisoners: 0 black, 0 white
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . O . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Author:  billywoods [ Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: #219 ikkyu vs. billywoods
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm30 Prisoners: 0 black, 0 white
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . O . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Author:  ikkyu [ Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: #219 ikkyu vs. billywoods
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm30 Prisoners: 0 black, 0 white
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . O . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So I thought about the following

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm30 Prisoners: 0 black, 0 white
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O b . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . a X . O . O . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . O . c . . . X . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


It seems like A would lead to the top group becoming stronger than I would like. C makes it easier for my group to connect up with "friends" but doesn't put as much pressure on white's two groups. I imagine white will play C16. If that happens, I may play K17 so white can't attach.

As before, not sure if I'm approaching this the "right" way.
Author:  billywoods [ Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: #219 ikkyu vs. billywoods
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm30 Prisoners: 0 black, 0 white
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . 6 X . O . O . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Here are some things that might happen, in different areas of the board, in no particular order.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . O . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . 4 1 2 X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . O 5 . . . . X . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . 3 1 2 . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . O . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . O . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . |
$$ | . . 1 X . . . . . X . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | 5 X O X . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . 3 2 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Black will probably play :b4: as above (or similar) because the alternative is:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm4
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . O . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . X 0 . . . . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . O 8 6 7 . . . . . . . . X O X O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | 1 O X 4 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 5 2 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


which is just not happy for black.
Author:  Adanux [ Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: #219 ikkyu vs. billywoods
Billywoods' recent diagrams contain a bad misread by him could be very costly.

Quote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm4
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . O . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . X 0 . . . . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . O 8 6 7 . . . . . . . . X O X O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | 1 O X 4 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 5 2 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Billywoods is right that this variation seems bad for black. However, I don't see any reason for black to passively capture the white stone with 12. If black connects, things suddenly look very unhappy for white since a and b are miai.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm1 Unhappy continuation for white
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . O . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . b . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . X 1 . . . . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . O O O X . . . . . . . . X O X O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . X O X . 3 . . . . . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | X . X O 2 a . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Instead, it seems like white's best move is to jump out with a small knight. This has the added benefit of reducing black's left hand side and it leaves open the option to later return and take the corner.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 White's best move imo
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . O . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . |
$$ | . . 1 X . . . . . X . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Author:  ikkyu [ Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: #219 ikkyu vs. billywoods
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm30 Prisoners: 0 black, 0 white
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . O . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . O . 7 . . . X . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Author:  billywoods [ Sun Aug 11, 2013 4:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: #219 ikkyu vs. billywoods
Sorry I'm being slow to reply!

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm30 Prisoners: 0 black, 0 white
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . 8 . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . O . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Not keen on dying here...
Author:  ikkyu [ Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: #219 ikkyu vs. billywoods
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm30 Prisoners: 0 black, 0 white
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . O 9 . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . O . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Starting to seriously wonder if I should have played 36 at K17 like I originally planned. I chose not to because when I took a look at it, my D16 group looked really weak. I eventually want to go back and kill off the lower left corner, but finding the right time might prove to be difficult.
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