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 Post subject: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2
Post #1 Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:14 pm 
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Here's the 2nd game where I'll be trying my luck using Takemiya style. However, this time I'll be playing White.

The game will employ Japanese rules, with players having free access to books. TIM82 said he doesn't plan on consulting pro game databases. However, I would like to do so very much. As compensation, I offer to play without komi. Is this acceptable to you, TIM82? If yes, please make your move. Good luck and have fun! :)

Overview of Takemiya Style:
For an overview of Takemiya style with Black, please see game #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style. The main difference between playing this style with White as opposed to Black is that White is one move behind. The result is that, if Black goes for a moyo of his own, his moyo will grow quicker. White needs to be mindful of this. I'm not sure how exactly I'm going to deal with this problem, yet, but maybe I'll just have to give my opponent even more free territory along the edge than usual. :) Let's see how the game develops.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2
Post #2 Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:52 am 
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The Intrepid wrote:
The game will employ Japanese rules, with players having free access to books. TIM82 said he doesn't plan on consulting pro game databases. However, I would like to do so very much. As compensation, I offer to play without komi. Is this acceptable to you, TIM82? If yes, please make your move. Good luck and have fun! :)

Blah. Seems like a silly reason to drop komi to me. Let there be komi, and I'll consult some databases if I feel like it. ;-)

Have a nice game! By the way, should I stay away from your other Malkovich-Takemiya?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , 1 . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I take these games as learning possibilities, and there are a few things I would like to play with currently to understand them better:

Cross-fuseki, especially with something like below:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Corner
$$ ------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . 2 . . . .
$$ | . . 1 , . . . 3 .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . 4 . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]

Sadly I suspect Takemiya may rule that one out, but if given possibility, I may well grap diagonal corners :twisted:

Or this stuff, which seems a little more likely, although not guaranteed by any means.
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=8460

Oh, and the chosen move? 3-4 instead of 4-4 entices white to take top left instead of bottom left, giving me option to take bottom left.

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 Post subject: Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2
Post #3 Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:13 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Feel free to follow my other Takemiya game, but don't read the hidden comments for the time being. Once the opening/early middle game concludes in both games, then it'll be fine.
I'll go for double-4-4, but won't play sarensei right away. Actually, let's see what Black does, first.

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 Post subject: Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2
Post #4 Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:51 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , 1 . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Oh well, no diagonals then. Currently feeling like trying a variant of Mini-chinese on left, or something related to the stuff I linked earlier.


Trigger:
If you take last hoshi, then 5.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , 1 . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . 4 . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2
Post #5 Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:40 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm6
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O . 1 . . . , . . . . . O . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I struggled a bit trying to decide on a move here. I decided against tenuki-ing, which could have led to a double-approach by White to my bottom-left stone. Then, getting a moyo could prove problematic. Curiously, Takemiya himself did not play :w6: in any of his games in this position. However, Gu Li, Lee Sedol, and Lee Changho have, so the move has to be good.

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 Post subject: Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2
Post #6 Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:52 pm 
Gosei
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You guys are, of course, aware that Takmiya with White is a *totally* different animal than Takemiya with Black?
Just saying... ;)

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WARNING: This post might contain Opinions!!


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 Post subject: Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2
Post #7 Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:19 pm 
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Yes, it is, isn't it? :)

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 Post subject: Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2
Post #8 Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 5:57 pm 
Gosei
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The Intrepid wrote:
Yes, it is, isn't it? :)


Sweet.
I get comfy and start the popcorn going. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2
Post #9 Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:06 pm 
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Bantari: I have no clear idea of Takemiya-as-white. But I suppose that should make for more funny background entertainment for your popcorn munching?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , 1 . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . 2 . 6 . . . , . . . . . 4 . . .|
$$ |. . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Normally I would just play as below, another likely option for 8-9 being e.g. white A, black :b9: below . This kind of game would be much more comfortable for me personally than what I chose here.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm7
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . X . 5 . 4 . . 2 . 3 . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . a , X . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O . O . . . , . . . . . O . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

However, learning comes not from comfort! :rambo:

Expected continuation 1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm7
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. 4 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. 3 2 O . O . . . , . . . . . O . . .|
$$ |. 5 1 . 9 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . 7 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Expected continuation 2. After 18, A is my sente which seems important in some corner sequences, and if I get to push at B white has to be careful about liberties. However, if white fixes around B, I currently intend to take C (I reserve the option to rethink this one :) ).
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm17
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , B . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . 3 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |2 1 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . c . .|
$$ |. O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |a X O O b O . . . , . . . . . W . . .|
$$ |. X X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Basically what I'm doing can be summed as either or both of following:
* fooling with a cool sequence without understanding it fully
* playing a game of chicken: when is it big enough to kill/save my corner, and how much aji will be left?

A trigger below:
(about ten moves long). Intrepid: feel free to vary at any point, and if you want to play moves here one by one, just ignore this trigger.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm7 17 at marked stone.
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. B X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. 4 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. 3 2 O . O . . . , . . . . . O . . .|
$$ |. 5 1 . 9 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . 7 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2
Post #10 Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:02 pm 
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Triggers save a lot of time, so keep offering them. Also, if you prefer, I have nothing against you making triggers on the main diagram. No need to make a separate hide tag, as far as I'm concerned.

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 Post subject: Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2
Post #11 Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:09 am 
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The Intrepid wrote:
Triggers save a lot of time, so keep offering them. Also, if you prefer, I have nothing against you making triggers on the main diagram. No need to make a separate hide tag, as far as I'm concerned.


Oh, I thought you would first decide on your response to my initial move, then peek at the trigger to see whether there is a continuation to your move or not. My mistake of not agreeing on this beforehand. No harm done, I'll continue offering these, but fully visible, and perhaps one move later in some situations.

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 Post subject: Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2
Post #12 Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:11 am 
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Oh, we can do it that way, if you want. To make it definitive, which do you prefer: decide first then peek at trigger, or all at once? I'm fine with either so it's up to you.

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 Post subject: Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2
Post #13 Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:07 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm13
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . .|
$$ |. . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. X O O . O . . . , . . . . . O . . .|
$$ |. X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I accept the trigger partially. By the way, let's handle triggers this way: if the trigger is in a hide tag, then that will mean that we should decide on a move before looking at the hide tag. However, offering triggers/sequences in the open (to save time, for instance) should also be acceptable. I think this way will be best.
In Takemiya style, keeping sente and occupying the key points in the beginning is of paramount importance. For this reason, I did not complete the joseki all the way through. Besides, I do not have a stone between my conrner stones, so I don't see a great need to protect the bottom side, yet. It's more urgent to approach he top-left 3-4 stone. The reason why I'm approaching this stone is that I have influence toward it, as opposed to the other Black 3-4 stone.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm13
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . Q , X . .|
$$ |. . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. W W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. X W W . W . . . , . . . . . Q . . .|
$$ |. X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Clearly, :wc: are better coordinated than :wt: are.

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Ontological imperative holds that my losses occurred only in imagination.


Last edited by The Intrepid on Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2
Post #14 Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:08 am 
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Ok. If it is the same the you, lets use hidden triggers, I'm more comfortable with those. So: if you see a hidden tag with "trigger:", first choose a move, then check if the trigger applies. Of course visible sequences are ok too - then there is no need ot decide on the move first, just to accept the proposed sequence or vary at any point.

Let's also confirm the komi size discussed in PM's before while we are fixing the facts: komi 6,5 right?

[Oh, you suggested the same solution as above while I was writing this. Good.]

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 Post subject: Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2
Post #15 Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:32 am 
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Yes, we're thinking the same thing regarding triggers. :) Komi of 6.5 is likewise agreeable.

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Ontological imperative holds that my losses occurred only in imagination.

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 Post subject: Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2
Post #16 Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:17 am 
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Rank: EGF 1 dan
Universal go server handle: TIM82
Online playing schedule: sometimes KGS
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm15
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. X O O . O . . . , . . . . . W . . .|
$$ |. X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White 14 seems a bit greedy to me, leaving weakness behind. But it makes the game interesting too, can't complain ;-) We shall see whether I'm good enough to benefit from it.

Seriously considered F16 for this move too. Then the question would be how good structure white gets on left side, and how much aji there is left. Will explain current plan later, when not on iPad.


Edit: added the stone, thanks!


Last edited by TIM82 on Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2
Post #17 Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:41 am 
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I think you're missing a Black stone in your diagram. :)
Generally, when the opponent has stones supporting his kakari (such as the White stones in the bottom-left in this case), loose pincers are to be preferred. The reason for this is that close pincers can come under attack very easily in such situations. Now I just need to come up with the right joseki to take advantage of TIM82's move.

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Ontological imperative holds that my losses occurred only in imagination.

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 Post subject: Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2
Post #18 Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 1:46 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm16
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . .|
$$ |. 1 . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. X O O . O . . . , . . . . . O . . .|
$$ |. X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Now, Black would be well advised to play a 2-space extension on the left (at "a"). Playing in the corner with :b1: would, instead, lead to difficulties after :w2:. The ensuing attack would enable White to easily build a moyo on the left side.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . 1 . . . , . . . . . , X . .|
$$ |. O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . a , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. X O O . O . . . , . . . . . O . . .|
$$ |. X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
Ontological imperative holds that my losses occurred only in imagination.

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 Post subject: Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2
Post #19 Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:03 am 
Lives with ko

Posts: 241
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Rank: EGF 1 dan
Universal go server handle: TIM82
Online playing schedule: sometimes KGS
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm17
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . 1 . . . , . . . . . , X . .|
$$ |. O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. X O O . O . . . , . . . . . O . . .|
$$ |. X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Explanation of plan still to be done - busy with real life.

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 Post subject: Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2
Post #20 Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 12:00 pm 
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I was planning to play a counter pincer right away, but perhaps I can find a more skillful way of getting a moyo. I'm currently trying to decide between these moves:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm18
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . X . . . , . . . . . , X . .|
$$ |. O . O . b . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . d . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . c . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. X O O . O . . . , . . . . . O . . .|
$$ |. X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
Ontological imperative holds that my losses occurred only in imagination.

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