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Teamovich 2
http://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=3062		 Page 9 of 10
Author:  lesenv [ Wed May 25, 2011 5:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Teamovich 2
well, do you want to look for another team-member or do you just want to move without Rafa? i think we mentioned a 3-days-per-move limit, but not everybody said if it was ok.

by the way: starting saturday i'm on holidays for two weeks, no internet, so feel free to move without me, i'll join you again once when i'm back.
Author:  Mnemonic [ Wed May 25, 2011 7:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Teamovich 2
The problem is that ddk aren't that consistent when it comes down to posting frequently. Personally I can't think of another ddk that is interested in Malkovich games. I guess we could ask Monodalogy since he seems to be at least lurking regularly. Or ask one of the newer members like Inkwolf but we don't know if they just quit after a few months :(
Author:  Marcus [ Wed May 25, 2011 7:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Teamovich 2
Will move tonight.
Author:  robinz [ Wed May 25, 2011 10:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Teamovich 2
Is this really a DDK game any more? I'm about 8k, I think Mnemonic is about 7k, and the black team has Jordus who I think is 8/9k. I'm not sure about the other team members. But I think there's no need to restrict it to DDKs :)
Author:  Marcus [ Wed May 25, 2011 2:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Teamovich 2
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If we want to add another player to this team, we should do so. Redundant, your thoughts?

WIC:
Contrary to robinz comment, I think Mnemonic's move is an excellent move. I expect Black will pincer trying to create a fight.

Robinz move is also playable, in my opinion ... however, I like the active aspect of R6 ... Black is almost forced to respond (it's unlikely that they will tenuki). I feel good about the flow of this game so far, and my team has been good about describing their reasoning, too.

Mnemonic already put some thoughts down on pincers, what about robinz? Any thoughts?
Author:  Mnemonic [ Wed May 25, 2011 3:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Teamovich 2
First of I agree with robinz that we have probably all gotten better by now and that it would help if we could extend our member search to high sdk's. So why don't we all post our current KGS ranks and see where that leaves us.

I'm currently a strong 7k pushing 6k. But because we have a tournament coming up I plan on studying a lot (5k by July is my goal, but we'll see if I make it) Note: jordus is also 5k on KGS

Now to the question of players.
There are currently 3 low level Malkovich games going on: robinz vs 1986 and Tryphon vs hailthorn. 1986 is (obviously) robinz level, so around 8k. The Tryphon vs hailthorn game is (sorry guys) ddk level. But they are both actively involved in the community and are unlikely to bail. Personally I'd be happy if any of them decide to join us. I don't mind playing a few moves without a third person, but it feels a bit lonely with only robinz to talk too :lol:
Author:  Redundant [ Wed May 25, 2011 4:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Teamovich 2
No! Only the black team can replace MIAs ... ;-)

I'm fine as long as you don't have the replacement sandbag.
Author:  Jordus [ Wed May 25, 2011 4:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Teamovich 2
Mnemonic wrote:
Note: jordus is also 5k on KGS

The last official KGS game I played I was 8k... the rest is just inflation... I doubt I am 5k...
Author:  lesenv [ Thu May 26, 2011 10:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Teamovich 2
I'm about 11k on kgs.

BIC:
My suggestion:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm17 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . 3 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'll be on vacation for two weeks, so don't wait for my suggestion to come in. :)
Author:  robinz [ Thu May 26, 2011 11:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Teamovich 2
My KGS rank is a bit irrelevant, as I don't think I've played a rated game since January - I'm off internet go at the moment (f2f is OK though, as are Malkovich games on here - not sure why, but it's just the way I feel), and also have very little time for it right now. If anyone cares, I seem to be right on the 7k/8k borderline, but that's just inflation - I was 9k last time I actively played there. My local club maintains a ranking ladder though, on which I'm currently ranked 8.5k. (But seem to be winning rather more games than I lose right now, all played at the theoretically correct handicap.) So I just call myself "about" 8k at the moment, but I don't really know.

I don't really mind who we get as a replacement for Rafa - I'd rather just get the game moving. But I do get the feeling the white team is (on paper at least!) rather stronger than the black one at the moment, so ideally it should really be a DDK, or 9k at the limit.

@Marcus (teammates and observers can also read, not that it says anything interesting):

Sorry, I have noted your question to me - I'll try to answer it at the weekend, but don't have time to deeply consider it right now.
Author:  Mnemonic [ Thu May 26, 2011 3:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Teamovich 2
I heard Shaddy was intrested last time, maybe we should ask him now that the overall level has increased :mrgreen:

I guess we agrred on someone between 11 and 10k so I sent PM's to Tryphon and Monadology.
Author:  Mnemonic [ Thu May 26, 2011 5:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Teamovich 2
I guess we have a problem. I've gotten responses from both Monadology and Tryphon and here’s the deal: Tryphon is willing to play but he is 7k :shock:
So we have:

White: 8k, 7k, 6k
Black: 8k, 10k, 11k

Our options:

A: Cancel the game
I'm thinking everybody is against this so let's just skip it.

B: Ask/Wait for another DDK to come around
I'm not sure if this approach is feasible. Don't get me wrong: if we find a DDK willing to participate I'd gladly accept, but who should it be? Monadology declined, hailthorn has little time and there aren't any other players that I can think of. :sad:

C: Play on and allow the black team certain "perks"
I don't know. Maybe redundant can ask more serious rhetorical questions than Marcus, or we all give black team a turbo lesson in being SDK. But I really want this game to continue and quickly. What are your opinions?
Author:  Tryphon [ Fri May 27, 2011 1:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Teamovich 2
Two other ideas :

D : swap a W and a B player. If the purpose of the game is learning, then all players are above win or loss, and they should not be worried by that.

E : enable tryphon crazy mode Weird openings (ok, it's too late), hardy tenukis, or if you want, DDK mistakes (I am at least 5d at DDK mistakes) :) I'd add that I don't plan to play sequences on a board before making a move, but read as far as I can (that is, 3 moves ahead in most cases, and yet, I often forget an answer) and rely to my intuition (just like MagicWand, but 15 stones weaker)

But since my rank is almost the same that the rank of people willing to play in the previous messages, and they proposed before me, I'd be willing let them my turn.
Author:  lesenv [ Fri May 27, 2011 10:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Teamovich 2
i'd prefer option C (becoming sdk). but being reallistic i don't care if the teams are balanced (an 8k joining black and a ddk switching to white) or if the 8k just goes to the white team.
I think the learning won't be affected.
Author:  Redundant [ Fri May 27, 2011 10:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Teamovich 2
lesenv wrote:
i'd prefer option C (becoming sdk).


I'm now offering unlimited teaching games for the black team for the duration of the game :)
Author:  robinz [ Sat May 28, 2011 7:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Teamovich 2
WIC:

OK, I've had some time to think about what to do if black pincers. There's nothing particularly coherent here, but just a few random thoughts:

Firstly, I think I agree with Mnemonic's suggestion if black plays the 1-space low pincer. I don't really expect Redundant to allow us to have influence like that, though, and suspect that a high pincer is more likely. I'm not quite sure of the best way to respond to that, unfortunately. Jumping into the corner is always an option, of course, but that will give black a lot of influence over the centre and lower side of the board - we don't even have any stones nearby to reduce it if black later tries to turn it into territory. I'm afraid I don't actually know any joseki for these pincers, so I'd be making it up as I go along, but I'd prefer to jump out and perhaps look to counterpincer when the time is right. We can always invade the corner later (or slide to S4) if black doesn't prevent it.
Author:  SinK [ Sat May 28, 2011 12:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Teamovich 2
Don't know what I am at the moment. I haven't played in a while but last I checked I was on the 10k/11k borderline on KGS. I don't particularly mind the imbalance in strength though. I'm happy to keep going as is with whoever (within reason, filling the gap).

I'll probably be a bit unreliable for the next three weeks or so as its exam time for me if I do overstep the three day margin go on without me but know I will be back.

(Also if anyone want to play a malkovich once my schedule clears up PM me.)
Author:  Mnemonic [ Sun May 29, 2011 7:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Teamovich 2
@Tryphon: I personally don't like your options. :D The Idea of mixing teams seems plausible at first but I have invested a lot playing for white, time as well as personal, and don't want to be kicked of the team. I also enjoy discussions’ with teammates and my captain and would miss that too. I bet the black team has had similar experiences but that is precisely why I don't want to switch teams.

Your second suggestion may be even worse. This is a team game where everybody should be working as hard as they can. It would really get on my nerves if you were purposely throwing a wrench into the works.


That said, it seems we are just going to play on without really worrying about ranks. Good luck and good game to everyone, especially the newcomers. :tmbup:
Author:  Tryphon [ Sun May 29, 2011 7:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Teamovich 2
Optione E was a joke :)

That said, who plays ?
Author:  Mnemonic [ Sun May 29, 2011 9:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Teamovich 2
Tryphon wrote:
That said, who plays ?

At the moment it is blacks turn so you have to wait. :mrgreen: I don't know if you have/want to read the entire Thread. If not I can pick out a few important post that deal with strategic discussions.
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