It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 2:01 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 28 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: Re: When are you not a "beginner"?
Post #21 Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 11:08 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 418
Liked others: 9
Was liked: 83
Rank: kgs 5 kyu
KGS: Pio2001
Carcosa wrote:
I read somewhere that some kinds of territory scoring in rare cases can be very difficult to determine and they actually call in a tribunal of professionals to judge the final score...


That's right.
I consider myself an expert in go rules, but I recently found one that I didn't know yet :

"When only one player can start a ko and the other can do nothing but kill himself, the group of the latter is considered to be dead without further play" (Chihyung Nam, Baduk Made Fun and Easy vol 2, p 163).

This is not part of the Professional japanese rule. Maybe it has been part of the japanese 1949 rule. But since the author is korean, and a specialist of the rules, I suppose that this statement is actually a part of the current korean rule.

In conclusion, I'm a beginner in Korea, China and Taiwan. But I'm no more beginner in France, UK, Japan and USA :blackeye:

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject:
Post #22 Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 5:34 pm 
Honinbo
User avatar

Posts: 8859
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Liked others: 349
Was liked: 2076
GD Posts: 312
Quote:
The question was a joke. Someone must have realized that, right?
If you have to ask...

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: When are you not a "beginner"?
Post #23 Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 6:33 pm 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 301
Location: Illinois
Liked others: 228
Was liked: 84
Rank: infant
I have found that from the perspective of Chinese go introductory books (围棋入门), a beginner could be ranked as highly as 10k on a typical server. What constitutes "beginner" curriculum is much more comprehensive and expansive in Chinese texts than it is in Western texts, sites, or popular opinion.

I'd also go so far as to say that claiming "I can play Go" in China is equivalent to saying you're 1dan in ability.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: When are you not a "beginner"?
Post #24 Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 9:36 pm 
Honinbo

Posts: 10905
Liked others: 3651
Was liked: 3374
Pio2001 wrote:
Carcosa wrote:
I read somewhere that some kinds of territory scoring in rare cases can be very difficult to determine and they actually call in a tribunal of professionals to judge the final score...


That's right.
I consider myself an expert in go rules, but I recently found one that I didn't know yet :

"When only one player can start a ko and the other can do nothing but kill himself, the group of the latter is considered to be dead without further play" (Chihyung Nam, Baduk Made Fun and Easy vol 2, p 163).

This is not part of the Professional japanese rule. Maybe it has been part of the japanese 1949 rule. But since the author is korean, and a specialist of the rules, I suppose that this statement is actually a part of the current korean rule.

In conclusion, I'm a beginner in Korea, China and Taiwan. But I'm no more beginner in France, UK, Japan and USA :blackeye:


That sounds like a Moonshine Life rule. (See http://senseis.xmp.net/?MoonshineLife .) IIUC, all modern pro rules make it dead. AGA rules may allow it to live.

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: When are you not a "beginner"?
Post #25 Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 9:24 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 418
Liked others: 9
Was liked: 83
Rank: kgs 5 kyu
KGS: Pio2001
Bill Spight wrote:
That sounds like a Moonshine Life rule. (See http://senseis.xmp.net/?MoonshineLife .) IIUC, all modern pro rules make it dead. AGA rules may allow it to live.


Not really, the figure illustrating the rule was this :

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------
$$ | . X . X . O X .
$$ | X X X O O O X .
$$ | O O O X . O X .
$$ | X O X X O O X .
$$ | X O O O O X . .
$$ | X X X X X X . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .[/go]


and the situation is described as "dual life and a big eye vs small eye simultaneously". The logic is the same as the bent four in the corner.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: When are you not a "beginner"?
Post #26 Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 9:31 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 418
Liked others: 9
Was liked: 83
Rank: kgs 5 kyu
KGS: Pio2001
Drew wrote:
I'd also go so far as to say that claiming "I can play Go" in China is equivalent to saying you're 1dan in ability.


That sounds perfectly logical if we consider Weiqi (the game of go) as an art equivalent to Guzheng (playing the chinese zither).
When you say that you can play an instrument, you are supposed to be able to play something nice, not just identify which string plays which note.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: When are you not a "beginner"?
Post #27 Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:35 am 
Tengen

Posts: 4380
Location: North Carolina
Liked others: 499
Was liked: 733
Rank: AGA 3k
GD Posts: 65
OGS: Hyperpape 4k
I know this thread is old, but the gowan's comment stuck in my head.

Whatever rank we decide, I think it has to be respect the idea that just by playing, without extensive studying, you can expect to no longer be a beginner after 5 years.

Based on that, I'd have to argue that being a beginner ends somewhere in the DDK range. Almost no one I've observed playing at a club has been lower than 15k after five years, but I've seen players who are 10k or 12k after a decade or more.

P.S. emeraldemon, I agree we're never going to be able to decide between 13k and 14k, but when someone suggests amateur shodan, and someone else says 20k, I think there's a real disagreement to discuss.

_________________
Occupy Babel!

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: When are you not a "beginner"?
Post #28 Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:29 am 
Honinbo

Posts: 10905
Liked others: 3651
Was liked: 3374
Pio2001 wrote:
Bill Spight wrote:
That sounds like a Moonshine Life rule. (See http://senseis.xmp.net/?MoonshineLife .) IIUC, all modern pro rules make it dead. AGA rules may allow it to live.


Not really, the figure illustrating the rule was this :

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------
$$ | . X . X . O X .
$$ | X X X O O O X .
$$ | O O O X . O X .
$$ | X O X X O O X .
$$ | X O O O O X . .
$$ | X X X X X X . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .[/go]


and the situation is described as "dual life and a big eye vs small eye simultaneously". The logic is the same as the bent four in the corner.


Thanks. :)

BTW, Nam's language is not how I would describe this situation.

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 28 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group